For a bloodless separation both parties need to want the separation, also be on the same power level helps a lot.
Yeah, no nation willingly gives up territory, near abouts. Especially when wars of outright conquest are now frowned on by the international community, every scrap of territory is precious, and in Infinity, I doubt that would have changed. Land is a valuable commodity in itself.
The only modern equivalent of a peaceful separation would be the break up of the british empire because the british were exhausted after two world wars. Yu Jing isn't anywhere close to exhausted.
No, Outrage doesn't really foreshadow the Secession. I think you should read it anyway, due to the portrayal of YJ in it. Shots fired in a YJ-controlled area? Holy freaking shit, there's two Guijia, a Squad of Tigers, and a Hac Tao or two showing up in armed transport VTOLs. That would be why ITS games only last 3 turns, you're going to get blown off the map when the overt military shows up! That's the Mailed Fist, the heavy authoritarian control of YJ, in action. But there's also a rather major sub-plot going on to make a play for concessions in the Oberhaus. That's the competent and subtle manipulation side of YJ in action. Spoiler Actually, it's the entire reason the Outrage op in Svalarheima was blown, just to get concessions from PanO later! But when it gets turned around on the YJ Ambassador, he actually makes a subtle job offer to Emily and shrugs off the loss. "If I had a hundred soldiers like you, I would not have to bother with this diplomatic knavery. We shall meet again." Very good analysis, though I doubt that your 3rd take is true. The total collapse of YJ would definitely make for some scary-interesting developments, however. I'm assuming something like a parallel of the collapse of the Soviet Union, but in the face of an existential external threat like the Combined Army, Aleph allowing it to happen would be stupid. At least partially, yes, that's another major concern of mine. I'm also not too fond of what the Japanese have become (choice of either Edo-period stagnation or the worst excesses of the militant 1894-1945? ewwww!). Given how little attention is given to either time period in Japanese history classes today, I can see how that might happen. Agreed. The secession needed to be violent, because this is a wargame setting. That does not mean that the StateEmpire organization dedicated to maintaining the Peace, Stability, and Prosperity of the StateEmpire should be incompetent at counter-insurgency operations. They could still fail, since apparently there were enough backroom deals for support to make it near-impossible for the StateEmpire to hold onto the area, see the American example of Vietnam. Actually, there are a LOT of parallels to the US involvement in Vietnam. Just off the top of my head: A strong national identity sufficient external support that they could stand up to a significant part of a superpower's military massive failures of information control, which may have reduced internal support and definitely increased external political pressure Well, it's not like there's a noble class outside the Imperial Courts in YJ to make the claim, either. But I could totally see the other Imperial Dynasty making that claim just to force an Election. The Japanese Emperor could have made it, too. In fact, may have made it, but not mentioned in the fluff. I'm still rather amused that the same people who sold Japan to YJ in the first place were agitating for secession (well, maybe a hundred years later, but with resurrections...). Yep. But since this is a wargame setting, even a near-peer separation would need to be violent (or at least have moments of violence for us to game, even if the overall separation was 'peaceful') Also, India was roughly as powerful as the UK, and Ghandi could shame the Brits into letting India go peacefully. (It's about how a lot of the Civil Rights movement succeeded in the US, shamed the racist assholes by showing them beating people in their Sunday Best who were not showing any threat to the police.)
This is just largely nitpicky. Perhaps instead of the ISS it should have been regular troops attacking Japanese civilians. But the ISS seems set up to contain the cruelest elements of Yu Jing. The ISS seems to be in part the secret police of the Party. Uprising was never going to be complex examination of the conflict. Its more just an introduction to the new Japanese Sucession Army. Perhaps that should have been made more clear from the start. A failing of communication on CB's part. But the CB has always said very little about future plans. "Well, it's not like there's a noble class outside the Imperial Courts in YJ to make the claim, either. But I could totally see the other Imperial Dynasty making that claim just to force an Election. The Japanese Emperor could have made it, too. In fact, may have made it, but not mentioned in the fluff." As a side note, The Imperial Court sounds like an awesome setting for an RPG session. I want those Infinity RPG sourcebooks now!
This doesn't change peoples concerns all that much though, Yu jing is still the stupid butcher flailing around like an idiot.
I had enough!!! CORBUS BELLI can do everything they want, of course it is their game. But I will not stand waiting what they are going to do. WE ARE YU JING!! I will keep fighting for the State Empire!! AND YOU MUST KEEP FIGHTING!!! They will write whatever they want. BUT WE ARE YU JING!! ENOUGH!!! What is this about I Will Quit or what... I DONT CARE!! WE MUST KEEP FIGHTING!!! The next campaign we must do our best and fuvhhjk ooffggg secret objectives!!! WE must defend our faction. SHOOT!! RESISTANCE!! SACRIFICE!! WE ARE YU JING!!
I guess it depends on who writes the campaign updates that decided to dumpster yu jing, beast of war or some CB employee, if that shit carries on ill just go back to casual games of 20x20
Warren from BoW has never even implied that BoW has any creative input, they just host the campaign software. In fact, when we were bent out of shape with the surprise loss of La Forja in Wotan Phase 2 (I was playing Nomads for Wotan, since I finally had the models to do the all-Zero-Gee list), Warren specifically said that was CB's doing and not his. Don't remember if anyone from CB confirmed, though.
Duly noted! The third option is there simply because to me, it seems like the consequence of "Yu Jing is just evil. and it makes sense that they'd act incompetently", which is a line of argument that's kept recurring throughout the thread from the people who've read the story. As an aside, an ideological collapse might be interesting storywise; the assumption is that authoritarian regimes cannot survive their fundamental positions of power being challenged openly, and that the display to which YJ is rendered helpless to stop the seccession of the japanese minority might well launch an existential crisis in the Empire. However, this assumes a number of things, and some of them might be interesting to explore: - YJ is built specifically to be able to change (2 imperial lines, 2 sides to the party etc.). - Ironically, information control may end up being much more powerful in a transhuman setting, making a "soft power" approach to keeping the population in line more viable than it would be in present day and age. I suspect you're looking at inspiration from a strange amalgation of different historical periods, really. That said, the Kempeitai, plus fanatical and morally bankrupt kuge? Sounds like a bad backdrop for samurai heroics on the battlefield to me!
I suspect that it gives a great backdrop for samurai serving wicked lords and having a crisis of honor. That's not a bad backdrop, given how that's a theme of many samurai dramas.
I'll say it again. If you do that you make CBs recent decisions and actions with Yu Jing an objective success. "Can we TROLL Yu Jing players into playing and buying more?" they asked. If that is your response, and if enough people respond like that, their answer is "Yes". So then they will do it to you, and the rest of us again, only worse.
To comment specifically on the stuff about YJ: It's all in the format of journalism, intelligence reports, or dry historical analysis. Yu Jing successes are mentioned, but glossed over - or presented with negative qualifiers. Very very little detail is given unless there's a negative thing to bring up. By contrast, any time it talks about Yu Jing failures it picks them apart. These articles are mostly from Haqq, PanO or Arachne sources.
That's basically what happened to Colonel Ikari. The man got dumpstered by JSA (Not YJ) High Command. Honestly, the book seems to lay the problem of high attrition among JSA units prior to Uprising largely in the lap of JSA's commanders. The cruel irony for the lower class soldiers is that this largely remains unaddressed post separation. The calcification of the class system and use of the Kempetei seems to lay the seeds of further revolts. I honestly don't think I can muster the drive to rep YJ in the next BoW campaign. I had lots of fun coming up with stories for the previous ones, but now I just feel drained.
That's a very important point to notice. PanO, by definition, is going to be rather negative and/or dismissive towards YJ 24/7. If Secessionist media are playing up the atrocities, it's easy to see how humanist Haqq would not be very positive, either. And Nomads are likely to be pretty negative on YJ in general.
