Usually I don`t use any kind of grenades except of smoke ones, but I see how it could be used at least as a threat. Opponent is forced to scatter his weak important guys around making it easier for me to cut them. I`m taking HGL Lizard to next tournament, we`ll see how it would play. I expect occasional success, maybe in some vital points of games.
Grenades (and launchers) are awesome weapons, that I've learned to fear. They're not reliable though, and when they are, the order investment is usually high compared to just shooting a HMG. But Speculative Fire has some awesome advantages in bypassing ODD/Camo and cover, on top of that you can deny opponents an offensive FtF, so shooting at say a ODD trooper in cover and Suppression Fire (for a -12 penalty), you reduce that to a paltry -3 (+range) and do not face a hail of bullets in return. Your opponents only choice is to either take it, or Dodge and drop his Suppression Fire making your advance easier. And there really is no worse feeling, than when grenades are raining down around your expensive troops. When facing Ariadnans, it is not the aggressive and predictable Spetznas HMG, that bothers me. I've got tons of options to win a straight duel, but when that lone foxtrot lying flat on top of a building starts raining down grenades, it really starts messing with my plans.
As an Onyx player the only grenade of any kind I get access to is the one found on the Maakrep. Specifically, the BSG or Hacker profiles. With 4-2 Mov and PH11 for 26 points, I can't remember ever seeing one played. When I play Vanilla CA, I'll usually try and Spec Fire a few times in a game with the Daturazi if it's more convenient or safer than engaging in CC.
My last game saw a Riot Grrrl! trying to ARO-blind a Crane Agent with her grenades, at +3 (the blitzen was 50% at that range, and the combi was unlikely to neutralize the bugger). She managed to tag both the Crane and a Hac Tao in the first ARO attempt... and both ignored the effects. Considering how grenades are damage 13, I wouldn't expect them to do much more than a combi, leaving aside the template and speculative fire.
In my last game I lost my team leaderThrasymedes on a spec grenade fired by a Krakott (these monkeys are damn strong). Since he would have been at -6 anyway, due to ODD, my opponent chose to use spec fire instead. That was a good choice. By the way i just notice i forgot about 4-man team SSL2, but my roll would still have been a failure. Overall we don't see much spec fire, and nearly no LGL appart from team Mirage. Most of the times, it's a standard grenade thrown by a krakott.
I was mixing, normal grenades are damage 13. That's why I chose to ARO with the Stun Grenades, I had better odds to do something (aside from the +3 to BS, I was rolling at 16), and a blind crane would have a hard time dodging... plsu getting both the crane and the Hac Tao on the first and second ARO was too sweet. They both rolled high the BTS, so... (I had terrible luck there... but it has been my business as usual for months now, and I'm talking about rolling 5-7 twenties on non-ARM/BTS rolls and 4-5 ones on ARM/BTS rolls... using the same set of dice).
Combis kill plenty of troops. I tend to be the one using grenades in my group. I terrorized them with a Wu Ming Multi+LGL by himself (BS16 with FtF, BS10 speculative), Wu Ming in a team is going to be pure gold. Like any other weapon, you gotta maximize your BS. Throwing a grenade outside 8" is foolish, launching one 0-8 or 16+ is equally foolish. Especially when speculative-firing. And I almost always use grenades speculatively, not when I have a different weapon to shoot at them in FtF. EM grenades on Domaru are absolutely hilarious against anyone running heavies. But if you're close enough to throw one, you're likely close enough to Move+CC with a nearly-impossible-to-beat CC roll (without using Berserk). Only time the EM 'nades are worth it is when you have a wall in the way on a speculative throw. But I love watching HI do the dying cockroach.
Stun Grenades are Dam 15 and cause two BTS saves. They're wayyyy better than regular Grenades IMO. When I have a link team with Grenades and a decent PH, I use the odd spec fire to push people off suppression, sure. Pretty sure that's the whole point of them tbh.
Meh, against a Crane Agent is wound on 9 or less (45%) with a single shot at 14, plus he has 2 wounds... the Stun Grenades are at the same odds (damage 15 Vs BTS 6) but, as has been mentioned, 2 BTS rolls, plus I managed to get the Hac Tao as secondary target... and they all passed the rolls, so the Combi would have done the same. The idea was ARO1: enemy stunned, no attacks, dodges at -3. Next AROs: combi shot. The frigging Crane managed to resist 3 Stun Grenades at point blank, dammit (moving in an arc around the Riot Grrrl!!!).
Combis and shotguns get most of my kills. Asymetrical cover means Combis do more damage than HMGs and get more hits. When you can do that with an HMG you can kill anything but that can be hard to do unless you're a fast giant robot or you strap a jetpack to it.
Worth it because of two targets but HI are, as they should, generally the best at dodging or blocking it.
Of course, if you have a better weapon at a given range, then there is no reason to use a combi :) And boy do I know the feeling – I once had a myrmidon chuck 6 grenades to cover up a Marut; 5 failed attempt at 16s <sigh>
First time using Machaon. Time to wake up the boys... 7 rolls later, no command tokens left and 4 myrmidons totally dead. On the other hand, Atalanta took out 2 STR from the Squalo in ARO and took out the enemy's engineer...
You know that tool on your swiss army knife thats for taking stones out of horses hooves? You never use it for horses but you find something that needs a weird tool and Lgl is like that. I had a few games now where there was no plan but something came up and it was handy.
I run HGL Lizard with vanilla Nomads fairly frequently. Played it at the European Infinity Challenge and did okay with it (got my ass whupped by a few great players, slaughtered a couple unlucky opposing forces). HGL works okay if you have a decent priority plan for using it and know when to quit for normal forces. I failed at the latter in one of the cases where I lost, because Tohaa symbiomates. Dear god do I hate the broken-ass symbiomates. I'm a big, big fan of Emily in Starco so far, and of Massacre in both the Starco Brigada link and the Jaguar link in Corregidor. And I'm on the recieving end of McMurrough's grenades with unfortunate frequency. Grenades of any kind are weapons of necessity. All that others have mentioned, from ODD to Supp fire guys to unapproachable hack-fortresses and TR HMG nests, you can use a few extra orders to take them down with little risk to your own order pool etc. I'll add one more very, very useful place for grenades: Punishing an obvious Lt. choice. That's where E/M LGL is reeeeeally handy. I've really enjoyed using it against JSA. My last game saw Oyama turned into a lawn ornament, earning his force a turn of shuffling around. Very helpful that.
