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How many Hidden Deployment/Assault Drop troops are too many?

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by GuanYunChang, Dec 7, 2017.

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How many hidden deployment/assault drop troops?

  1. 5+. There's no such thing as too many! Take as many as you can!

    10 vote(s)
    14.7%
  2. 3-4! Plenty of chances to surprise the opponent

    20 vote(s)
    29.4%
  3. 2. But deployed in different groups to preserve orders

    22 vote(s)
    32.4%
  4. 2. Even in limited insertion that's my sweet spot

    11 vote(s)
    16.2%
  5. 1. No more, no less.

    5 vote(s)
    7.4%
  6. Even one is too many.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. GuanYunChang

    GuanYunChang 二哥

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    Just wondering as with the thread title: In a typical list, how many units do people feel comfortable having off the board waiting to enter the battle field as a surprise trigger or air drop.
     
  2. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    I'd say it depends on whether or not I want that troop (those troops) to throw the opponent off. If I'm only taking one, then an experienced opponent will know exactly what it is, so I'm only taking it because it's a good troop regardless *cough* MissileNoc *cough* and I can maybe play some mind games with placement. 2 is generally the same thing, but at least there could be doubt. At 3-4, putting one in the main group and the rest in the secondary can make it look like I have a Sphinx when I really have a couple Fraacta and a Malignos or something for some late game scoring... or maybe I do have that Sphinx...

    I chose 3-4 because of the title of the thread. I think that 5+ is probably a bit much for HD/Drop troops simply because you won't have the orders to play around with until you put them all down anyway. Choosing an amount below that depends entirely on what you want to do with your list.
     
  3. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    One per combat group is my ideal max, unless there is an order preserving gimmick like strategos.
     
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  4. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Frack! It depends a lot. Mercenaries extra? 4+ thanks to Yuan Yuan. QK? 3+, again thanks to YY XD
    When I play with EC, a Fraacta is too good to pass on (she is essentially a HI AD Troop!)
    When I play with Aleph, barrying specific scenarios, two is the limit, one is the usual, and zero an option (21 points for a Boarding Shotgun Garuda equals 21 points for an AHD Posthuman Mk2...)... Of course, the posthuman mk2 removes the "sacrifice" of one order out of the game.
    On Nomads, again one AD troop (Tomcat medic/engineer, usually).

    So I'd say 1 regular order on reserve always, sometimes 2 (if we consider 1 irregular order as 0.5 regular ones) and rarely 3.
     
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  5. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    I tend to have one AD even in limited insertion, and even when fielding ultra expensive minis (Marut ...). For the opponent, knowing all troops are in the field, or even one is missing, that's a huge change.

    I usually don't field more than 2 AD or HD, that is unless i play airswarm QK (4 bashi with their holo + 3 yy make big troubles for the opponent)
     
  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    How many are too many? When you successfully manage to convince your opponent that those four camo tokens in your deployment zone is actually four Raiden Snipers because no one would be silly enough to field an army consisting of 2 Raiden HRL and a Keisotsu LT as the only non-HD troops.

    But that's probably going way too far. I think roughly 2 units per group that's not generating orders to the pool is a sane amount. Hidden Deployment you can have a bit more of than AD since they can actually make good use of their order. So... 1 HD per 75-100 points and 1 AD per ~150 points is probably a good place to stop.
     
  7. Elric of Grans

    Elric of Grans Well-Known Member

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    Personally, 3-4 is my max; I almost never take less than 2! AVA lets me field more, but it seems more like a liability.

    I often drop one, maybe two, on my first turn (often a Hellcat HMG or Combi Rifle). It gets me a model into a key position on my opponent's half and has no opportunity cost in 'lost' Orders. I then bring others in on subsequent turns as required (eg a Tomcat in on turn two to bring back a REM and press a button within a few Orders of each other). I find them Order efficient and more likely to solve the problems I face than most other options, but that is probably just saying something about how my brain works.
     
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  8. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    At 1 CG I usually have 0-1. At 2 CG I usually have 2-3.
    Some teams take more than others.
     
  9. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    It depends on how many of those ADs are Yuan Yuans :yum:
     
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  10. regelridderen

    regelridderen Dismember

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    In Aleph I’ve quite often deployed two Dasyu KHD - in their own combat group to bring in for the late game, shoring up cheap casualties with prime troops. Along with the ‘mandatory’ MK2 posthuman, the luxury of having 3 superior specialist on the table has been invaluable. But Aleph is an elite army with little cheap chaff, so I’ve rarely had a large 2nd combat group.

    Now with the access to cheap yuan yuan, things might be a little different..
     
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  11. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Not more than 2 AD and/or Hidden Deployment troopers per combat group.

    Even though I could take 9 Ninjas (OK, Shinobu, 3 Oniwaban, Saito, and 4 Ninjas) in JSA, I wouldn't field but ~2 in Hidden Deployment. Everyone else would be on table as TO Camo markers.

    Similarly, I only ran 1 Tiger and 1 Ninja in Vanilla YJ. Or 1 Garuda and 1 Ninja in Imperial Service.
     
  12. Todd

    Todd Well-Known Member

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    I tend to treat HD and AD very differently. HD models aren't necessarilly the order sinks that AD troops typically are. They use their reveal order to actually do something besides arrive on the table, and you can always just deploy them as a TO marker from the start (Yuan Yuan are about the only AD model I'll deploy normally, mainly for the smoke, and not feel like I've wasted it).

    That being the case, I'm going to pretend that the poll is only about AD, which I take a maximum of 2 (again, with Yuan Yuan being an exception, because they fall more into the Smoke/ChainRifle/Warband category).
     
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  13. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, Todd.

    I suppose I should clarify my comment a bit. No more than two models off the table at the start of the game, so you have 8 orders in your primary combat group at the start of your first turn.
     
  14. Todd

    Todd Well-Known Member

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    It get's even trickier when you consider that an on-table irregular model starves an order group in a similar manner.

    I think trying to have at least 8 visible regular orders in the primary group is also the closest thing I have to a personal list building guideline.
     
  15. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I often end up constructing my ISS lists with irregular Sforza because I don't think Dogged is worth 5 points - the irregular order will never be the only order spent on Sforza in a turn unless he dies to ARO spending it.
    I propose irregular being a drawback only if it is on a model that you won't be guaranteed to spend orders on or who needs to partake in coordinated orders.

    Irregular Yan Huo or irregular Jotum wouldn't be much of a drawback similar to Frenzy only being a theoretical drawback in most games.
     
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  16. prefAct

    prefAct Active Member

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    Equip Mirage counts as 1, ...right?
    Then 1 is enough, regardless the opponent.
     
  17. Safetyfirst

    Safetyfirst Member

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    I generally run 4 x The shrouded mine layers, so there's 8 there. Then a combination of Malignos, Speculo killer, Noctifers and Aswangs. So around the 11-12 mark for Shasvastii.

    Edit: oops sorry, I thought you meant Camo deployed aswell. Then just 2-3 models.
     
  18. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
    Moderator

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    More than two troops in each combat group is an order management exercise.
     
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  19. Bert

    Bert Member

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    Depends if you are going first or second. I regularly run 4 2xNinjas Hac Tao and Tiger.
     
  20. Alkasyn

    Alkasyn Well-Known Member

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    I feel bad not having at least 7 regular orders in a group, and even that is usually not enough. So I try to use no more than 2 non-contributing Models (be it HD, AD or even Irregulars).
     
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