PanOceania need to use their high arm CC monster units or maybe surprise shot from someone in TO camouflage with an HMG (hey, look at what's in the other half of the beyond box...) , or a jotun etc. It's not ideal but it's workable. Something like the father knights can take the risk of the one shot from the borac's aro then start chopping bits off. Your point about mimitism, surprise shot etc is valid, but it shows that the solution was already available... All that aside you can always just go YOLO and try to outshoot the damn thing if you really want to, Pano are pretty good at that, and even then it's possible to get a double crit with a fusilier's pistol... Then as @ijw alluded to, a coordinated order with a couple of double hard bastards in it will force the choice of a dodge or shoot one thing once while eating the shots from the rest.
I don't quite understand how it can be a problem or even a "non ideal" situation. Borac may be a monster in active turn, but even if he ARO shoot with -3 in reactive, it is still a standard HI with only B1, it should not be a problem for the greatest active platform PanO has. That's no different from any unlinked HI with mimetism caught on reactive, except he will probably shoot back to impose the -3 rather than dodge.
If you deal with this the same way you would a mimetic HI with a heavy weapon... Then surely Full Auto can be scrapped, use double weapons for the first level and mimetism for the second. I'm happy you agree ;) Frankly, the only difference between this and mimetism is that as long as you fire back, you ingnore MSV. But if you don't, you lose that -3 to the enemy roll, MSV or no MSV. Quite the minimal difference, for a whole new rule in a game with more than enough rules, and so many interdependencies.
Exactly. It's really good, but it's not unbeatable. While we're at it we can do away with double action since we have T2, we don't need AP since we have higher dmg, we don't need fireteams since we have coordinated orders...
I agree. At the moment other HIs are way more hard to play against. Military Order HI link with Jean is close to being indestructible for a poor Nomad without hacking, for example.
Well, in fact AP is considered sub-par to DA until your target has ARM8+, so... T2 is unique, on all other types you roll (ARM, ARM twice or thrice, ARM+BTS...), on this one you roll always 1 ARM and get 2 hits. It would improve and simplify hacking, however, to use the same terms there used in weapons (Double Trouble to DA, etc...). And Fireteams are not Coordinated orders :P My point is that the game does NOT need NEW rules, but a streamlining and rewriting from scratch of the core book.
On a fluffy way, DA, EXP ... all have meaning. But if we look at the very core or it, it could be simply called ARM1, ARM2, ARM3 (meaning you roll ARM with 1, 2 or 3 dices). Same for nano and DT who could be BTS1 and BTS2. Full auto sounds good, that sounds more agressive than "mimetism". I'm not saying the rule is well written, just that it does have a meaning to create a rule, even if it's just for fluff.
I'm not sure, i see Full auto as more an increased rate of fire while retaining precision thanks to ammunition bands, stabilisers and heat sinkers, so that you can shoot more bullets at the same target. Suppressive fire is more "dispersing ammos in a area so that if something goes through, it will be hurt"
Well, when I first suggested that Full Auto Lv1 was unnecesary soemone pointed that sculping all the models with 2 weapons would increase the model's price, to which the answer was "it's a rule for the game, you can have rotating cannons or dual or something", so... Still no different XD It was noted, however, that one of markers printed in the box of the new Szalamander was "Team Leader"... So maybe the idea Gutier had was to Haris a Kriza or Two with Szally (two would be impractical: nearly 170 points of the list there...), and having double weapons would require to change the rule so it would not stack with Fireteam bonuses (thus wrecking other units like Rodoks), but it seems flimsy to me.
I`ve played a bunch of games with HMG Kriza: 1) He`s more fragile than TO or ODD HI. -3 is not so good and no other defensive skills/equipment. 2) He`s a beast in active turn, but only if targets are chosen wisely. I`ve failed to take down Seraph in cover with 8 orders. Also any ODD/TO target is almost unbeatable because of higher chances to outshoot Kriza even with -3 from FA2. 3) He`s really weak in reactive if not in suppression. And I either haven`t got any orders left for it or had some visible enemies who would love to put free bullets in Kriza. Camo/TO HMG HI would be about the same level of treat, maybe even higher because of Camo+Surprise Shot penalties, with much more defensive capabilities. Summary: FA2 is not so annoying as FatalityL2 and really easy to calculate. HMG Kriza is a beatstick about as good as Uhlan but much more fragile. If Intruder is glasshammer, Kriza is tempered glass hammer.
No argument there, which is why I compared AP to having higher dmg and DA to T2... The examples in pairs I gave all do similar things, one will be better in a given situation and the minutiae of how it's done vary, just like full auto and mimitism. Probably a combination of lost in translation and not knowing the 'correct' phrases to use, something like 'high cyclic rate' instead of full auto or 'tandem warheads' instead of double action etc. To me, Suppressive fire is covering your self activity, expecting resistance in a specific area or spray and pray and full auto is putting more rounds down range effectively, either by having a higher rate of fire or by using some technique or equipment that mitigates recoil allowing you to be more accurate.
I think Fatality is only stupid broken when you start allowing it to be used on high burst weapons. If it was limited to burst 1 stuff it wouldn't really be noticeable. Critfire Tarik, on the other hand, is going to be responsible for a table flip from somebody in the local group one of these days. The math on him comes out to something really close to 40% odds on critting each attack which allows him to go on some incredible streaks on a relatively regular basis.
Add to that Ramatah Task Force Fireteams... IF Tarik links with at least 2 other models... And it's not unreasonable to expect a Fireteam: Core of Khawarijs, who might be 1 wound wonders, but Burst 4 (spitifire) +1 (link), Fatality N2, +3 to CD, SS2...
True, Fatality L2 would have been fine on some low burst weapons like unlinked snipers, who are suffering from having the same burst as linked ARO, but on B4 weapons, it is a bit too much.
That was actually brought up during discussion at the last game night we had. Alot of groaning, and one of the Haqq players has decided to stop using Tarik because he feels he's not actually learning to play the game effectively when his games are revolving around how much stuff did Tarik crit today.
Well, to be fair, that happens to everybody to leans too much on certain troops. It happens to me with Posthumans (specially the Mk4 as ARO piece), others suffer it with Achilles, TAGs around the factions, the Su Jian... Tarik is kinda soft, however. For example, I suffered his death once... a Djabanzan HMG critted him, and hit him 3 times more... and I rolled a 20 on Dodge. And 2 ones and a five... XD The problem is that Tarik got a discount when he got Fatality, I will need to check it at home, but it was at least -1 point and -0.5 CAP, I think (while the Khawarij Spitifire got the other way around).
It's a bit more than that. Tarik allows him to essentially "problem solve" stuff by banging his face against things and winning because crits. Getting around the traditional Nisse ARO sniper right, usually requires some maneuvering and using the correct gear at the correct ranges. Or. You can throw Tarik at it from long range. Even at 24-32 shooting for -3 at a net BS of 4 Tarik has a 38% chance of killing the Nisse. That's messed up, and his train of thought that it's not teaching him to play the game just mowing stuff down with Tarik.
