I tend to agree but if they are significant, and they would have to be to justify PanO doing what they did, then that would also have a significant effect on the balance of power between the two hyperpowers. That doesn't work for Aleph. Which is a problem as what PanO knows Aleph knows and by extension they would then be in a position to intervene. So sadly still implausible :( Then we're back to machinations of higher powers. The bit that gets interesting there is that while this move makes sense for CA or a compromised Aleph it could also make sense for an Aleph which knew of a future gain to be made by YJ that needs a preemptive counter
C'mon man. You're just trying to bait me with this wild perspective. O-12 reflects the collective will of all member states. Either you're being purposefully disingenuous about the nature of a multi-state organization or you're perfectly illustrating my argument that we have no frame of reference for how such an entity impacts international conflicts. Cool your jets on the hyperbole.
Concilium has its own citizens, its own people, and apparently the biggest hammer in the room. The idea that it's not self-interested and realpoliticking itself doesn't make any sense... you basically have a nation (O-12/Concilium) with a privileged position over all other "nations" (The so-called Hyperpowers, all other nations), and nobody has cottoned on to the functional inequality there. And it's just bad storytelling to have a politically omnipotent entity and then have tales of political skullduggery that don't have them as either the protagonist or villain. Somehow they're some neutral arbiter, who's morally beyond reproach? Yeah no. Poorly thought out setting element, bad writing, etc.
You really wanna drive forward this bad storytelling argument, but you refuse to understand the story. Japan did *not* court O-12 to recognize their independence. They engaged with each faction to get their votes in the Oberhaus. O-12 did not decide to side with Japan, the member states did.
O-12 sided with the rebels because the member states did... the Japanese courted each of the powers to gain their support in the Oberhaus, and once they had that O-12 threw in with them. The procedure and requirements for the O-12 to recognize a new state are laid on in Uprising, and the JSA worked hard to get the facts on the ground to match those requirements.
None of that addresses the fact that most of those states had far more to gain by telling YJ about the upcoming uprising for a reasonable price.
Except not as those states saw it. They saw greater benefit in supporting the rebels, both in material benefit, and weakening (in whatever form it was) YJ. Additionally, while the Hexahedron/Old Man of the Mountain/Black Hand/etc. would almost certainly never tell YJ about an incipient revolt, would YJ have listened? We know that PanO supports subversive groups in YJ (in all parts), why would YJ take any information from them seriously?
As noted in the longer post PanO wouldn't tell them and so would be safe to approach. Every other faction could gain miles more approaching YJ. Hell, there are even merc groups like Ikari involved who apparently dislike JSA more than YJ and are just in it for the money. One lone Ikari approaches their local ISS officer with info to sell. "Check out this info. If it proves true then I want x paid into this account. If false then do what you will". Minimal risk and that individual has more money/power than they could dream of. Now multiply that across the literally millions of people involved in this operation. Single point of failure operations simply don't work on this scale. As to why would they take it seriously? As others have pointed out the stakes have to be ludicrously high to get PanO involved in the way they were. You can justify an investigation just because of those stakes. And maybe you wouldn't believe one person. Now what happens when a nomad, an ariadnan and a couple of Ikari all approach you with the same info about a grand conspiracy? There is no way that info doesn't get out. Unless Aleph started deleting the reports...
This is very incorrect. Ikari definitely has bitterness and disdain towards JSA and its cause, but his seething hatred for YJ is so much greater.
@BenMoss The real answer, of course, is that Yu Jing/IS had to be implausibly stupid for this to work. So, bad writing.
This is a gross mischaracterization of the conspiracy. A handful of secret meetings and agreements is basically the extent of the conspiracy. Leaders know, soldiers don't. The co-conspirators didn't even have to act until days/weeks after the first shots of the Uprising. There was nothing for YJ intelligence to detect except for the secret meetings... which they didn't because of the unassuming nature of the Japanese rep.
Well, this got hot. Now, I happen to think Gutier is a hack who got lucky and made a great game and setting. Either that or the RPG is really costing him brain cells, that pink dino probably took away some brain mass from the sheer effort to bullshit it in. You may disagree with those assessments, of course. Well, I think it is bad writing, but I don't think Yu Jing is super stupid, I think its just a Desu Ex Machina. Bum, it happened. Unobtanium did it. Someone used a mage's entrails to build a perfect plot. Whatever. Tohaa were involved, so clearly elf magic was used. Whatever. But Xi's fluff is kinda neat And yes, I'm just stepping here and calling it quits. So Xi. Now, Xi's granpa was a cop. A good cop. So he got shot by the triads. Because cliches. But at least Xi isn't an orphan. So flash forward and he is a workaholic cop. He initially didn't really care to be a cop, but when he was a kid or teen his family lived in an orbital controlled by a triad for 4 years. And the whole tour of horrors. Until one day a Pheasant came by and got all the triads arrested. There were a few unfortunate accidents where triad members fell off the stairs into bullets or DA CCWs or something, but more or less the orbital was cleaned by the book. So, like any normal kid would, he was like "I wanna do that". So he enlisted, joined the Celestial Guard, worked for a few years in the Counterinsurgency Division for some reason. One would guess he would have joined the anti-triad Division or whatever its called. I feel like this is kinda wonky, if he was gonna be counterinsurgency couldn't his granpa die in a Tatenokai attack? Why did they make him Counterinsurgency? So he worked there until the Yanjing picked him up. And then something about how he works in the shadow to uphold the law, because law is what protects the citizens's freedoms. It's nice. He is like, a good guy. But really, couldn't he have been just an anti-triad guy?
Obviously I disagree with you about Gutier (really? a hack?), but I'm glad you found something you like in the narrative.
He doesn't fit the definition of a hack, but he doesn't really produce particularly amazing work storywise. It's full of implausible plot holes without even touching the science fiction side of the setting. It's like the Last Jedi. It's fun if you don't really think about it, but it falls apart really, really, fast once you start asking questions.
Well it could be that you have to have a certain degree of seniority in order to get to choose your assignment.
Probably? But I'm speaking narratively, it makes much more sense to make him an expert in dealing with organized crime. Meh, whatever. He's cool and that's enough.
Wow, that's harsh :) We could go around in some more circles arguing about these supposed plot holes, but I don't have any more explanation than I've already given. If that doesn't convince you then I guess you have your opinion and I have mine.
