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Did the process and conclusion of "backdoor" improve your Infinity experience?

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Plebian, Apr 3, 2018.

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How do you feel about Backdoor

  1. I have a favorable opinion

    49 vote(s)
    28.5%
  2. I have an unfavorable opinion

    63 vote(s)
    36.6%
  3. I have no opinion

    49 vote(s)
    28.5%
  4. I do not know what that is

    11 vote(s)
    6.4%
  1. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Ignore him plebian
     
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  2. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member

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    This is so important it must be repeated from a mountaintop in every cardinal direction. I think it is something easy for folks to forget when discussions get heated and it seems folks are just hating on CB for the hell of it.

    Make no mistake, I didn't come to these boards to air my concerns because I hate CB. If I didn't like them and didn't care for this game then I wouldn't bother posting at all. I'm passionate about this game, I've played it since release and for all the criticisms I have, it is still in my top 5 games of my gaming career. I want to see CB do better, I want them to do good by this community that has done so much to promote their game. Infinity exists because some Spanish guys made a rather novel ruleset with good models and a small, strong community formed around it and grew it to where it was today because of the good will they felt. I was one of those folks on that initial wave of grass roots support, hell, there was a time when I remember defending CB from all comers (I, no fucking joke, defended the original Pheasant Agent as it appeared in the first printing of Human Sphere... it is not a proud moment for me. o_o ).

    If I didn't care at all, I would have walked away long ago and my posts wouldn't be on here, I love Infinity and don't want to see it get bogged down or die like so many other games I've played before (proud supporter previously of Target, i-Kore, and Rackham! Oh, and most recently Spartan...). I can only hope that CB are taking this feedback seriously and are doing their best to listen to the community as a whole, because I've seen too many companies fall due to stupid shit in the past to want to see another game I love end up on the trash heap.
     
  3. paraelix

    paraelix Seed Embryo Scholar

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    Which, evidently, includes Marathon... So you have good taste ;)
     
  4. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    Conclusions based on basic logic are not assumptions. Removing a piece from play affects balance in a game. Particularly for a person who was planning to play that piece, has practised with it etc. This is neither really arguable, nor a particularly difficult thing to understand, unless you're trying hard not to.
     
  5. stargorger

    stargorger Well-Known Member

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    And I'm asking that you not be an insulting prick by not actually reading what I or others have said. But maybe that's too much to ask, hmm? :)

    Large is large. All one has to do is see the number of negative responses in this forum, various facebook groups, etc to see that. Your poll is just that: one poll. I'm not arguing some hard math fact about statistically relevant data: I'm saying that there IS CLEARLY a not-insignificant number of people who dislike it.

    I don't know what you intend to prove by complaining about fake news and anti-gun demonstrations other than to give an example of how small sample sizes are small? o.O

    Your poll is a likewise terribly small sample size. If anything you just disproved your own point.
     
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  6. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    You *can* argue the degree of impact. And by and large, the characters chosen have less impact than others (Massacre, Saladin or Van Zant would all have affected balance more significantly).

    But going 'this doesn't affect me because I only play without those things' displays a distinct lack of empathy or complete lack of respect for others.
     
  7. Andre82

    Andre82 Well-Known Member

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    I should hope removing models affects gameplay at least a bit, otherwise the implications are far more disturbing.

    Hehe yah I am taking them at there word that the outcome was not rigged and as such they where not in control of who was getting nurfed. I am sure some thought was put into who was getting cut but the amount of resources needed is crazy high to play test all possible outcomes.
    However if we assume they did have this all under control. This gives us a pretty interesting insight into there head and what they consider balanced. I mean do Tarik and Andromeda really have equal value to there respective factions?
    Come on man, of course it's not a one to one comparison.

    Ok so we agree then.
    Those changes have an impact
    I do not know what or how much of an impact that will really translate into if any. Infinity is a hard game to figure out and the event will be over long before anyone "solves" it if anyone even tries.
    It's the principle and not the actual effect that is being pointed out.
    When making a tournament game lets not tweek the balance nobs based on fluff decisions. Much better to do that in a narrative situation like Wotan.

    I am saying that the fact that it MIGHT be a inherently disadvantage or even advantage to you is something CB should be very very carful about.
     
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  8. paraelix

    paraelix Seed Embryo Scholar

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    I see no call for this. You accuse me of rudeness by being the one to be overtly rude and name call? :/ I read your posts and it is full of subjective material. I pointed this out.

    Clear, in that that is what you see. Just as the person who looks at news stories about bad things thinks that only bad things go on in the world. People's complaints are always loud. When people feel wronged they feel obligated to go and tell everyone about it, in multiple places, and multiple times. The same person who posts in this thread may be posting their whine in 7 or 8 other threads.

    Of the 30+ people who answered the poll (not mine, by the way) that the event gave them a positive experience... How many threads about that positivity have been started? How many Facebook posts? How many of these people are likely to be cowed by the rage-fuelled, overt hate directed at the event outcome and therefore choose not to post about it? Or who took any positive experience, enjoyed it, but did not feel the need to broadcast it to the world?

    Kinda makes sense for the original OP to make an anonymous poll where people could register their feelings without fear or reprisal for those, because sure enough, voicing any opinion against the popular and vocal majority makes you subject to name calling or demands that you justify your stance given little Timmy's personal experience of the same matter being negative.

    In any case, as I have already expressed - I don't agree with the outcomes being amazing. I don't agree with the choice of outcome. What I do think is that people need to calm down - it is a short time period effect over one aspect of the game and will return to normal at a future date... Apparently with a "buff" to those affected for the remainder of the season.
     
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  9. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I don't have an issue with the concept of backdoor as a whole, but I find it a bit insulting to get stung by losing Xi Zhuang right on the back of the JSA debacle while NA2 loses nothing.

    It's just further proof that CB doesn't plan ahead very well at all.
     
  10. paraelix

    paraelix Seed Embryo Scholar

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    I'd be interested to know how many people participating in the discussions actually participated in the event. I know I didn't. I wonder if those who did, who kept track of the scores and placings of factions, and who -presumably were more invested- had a more positive experience than those who didn't.
     
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  11. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    participation is kind of irrelevant when the outcome of the event now influences and affects all ITS events. Meaning there is no effective opt out for those who wish to play ITS but not be affected by this event.

    Thats the core problem really
     
  12. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    ^
     
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  13. paraelix

    paraelix Seed Embryo Scholar

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    I would probably say that based on the outcomes here, I would more actively follow/pay attention to future campaigns on the basis that they *do* affect me and my models. Ergo, the next time I would be more involved and more invested in the outcome.

    Versus last year where Combined got Bit & Kiss cos some dude won Interplanetary. I had no involvement in that... And presumably, for balance reasons, CA would've gained another KHD along the way anyway.
     
  14. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Or you could do what most people are suggesting and take into account the feedback and modify said campaigns appropriately.

    That's the point, none of this is criticism for the sake of it, its an attempts to illustrate the issues with the execution of what is otherwise a good concept and therefore ensure that next time CB does not design the process with such inherent flaws as a "No opt out option"

    Counter to that there are a subset of posters that are taking this criticism as a personal attack or actively attempting to dismiss it or propose that the feedback they do not like is ignored. That is unhealthy behavior in the extreme and we'd all be better off if they stopped. You're fine to say you liked the outcome, just as others are fine to say they did not.

    Bit and Kiss went to the winner of the ITS, not interplanetary, unlikely you would actually win the global ITS though.
     
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  15. paraelix

    paraelix Seed Embryo Scholar

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    No, it isn't likely at all. So it isn't something to aspire to or in any way a motivational force for me in game terms.

    I will, however, again reiterate that I still don't feel there is any objective viewpoint showing the outcome of the Event to be a net negative. For every person saying "Look at all these sad people", someone else points out an instance where feedback is positive. Looks like the majority of comments on Vaul's youtube video complaining about Backdoor are positive or ambivalent.
     
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  16. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Your measurement for success is that 'it didn't piss off a sufficiently large proportion of the community to be an abject failure'?
     
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  17. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    There doesnt need to be a net negative take on the event, there could have, been no negative at all, and we could have instead swung from ambivalence to positive, thats why we give feedback.

    Even if the event had been accepted as only overwhelmingly positive then feedback and constructive criticism should still be welcomed not shunned and attacked so that the next time is even better.
     
  18. paraelix

    paraelix Seed Embryo Scholar

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    And what is a "correct" measure of success?
     
  19. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Its irrelevant thats the point
     
  20. paraelix

    paraelix Seed Embryo Scholar

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    Like, totally and honestly asking here. Because if your gauge of success isn't that something is a Net positive or not a Net negative - then I don't know what you're rolling by.
     
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