Yeah but that would have been declaring war with Russia with extra steps If yu jing controlled Japan, Korea and China there is no neutral territory. Since I assume there a spaceport facilities in China or korea. So it literally was PanO attacking yu king in yu king territory unprovoked and unapproved.
I think timing is important "Iron wall doctrine" did not start on earth and PanO did not implement it and got the blessing of O-12 on earth, they did it in Paradiso were suddenly Yu Jing while in the general war with CA are attacking important military facilities that are their own, O-12 needed the wider infighting to stop and PanO had a solution. I disagree the territory kept by JSA is that important to Yu Jing, for the Japan yes they are crucial and of utmost importance, for Yu jing? they are mostly mining installations but not that important for example Kurage had until the recent discoveries poor tasseum seems in a planet that is full of it, all earth orbitals were tertiary targets to be mopped up after earth, Japan itself was described as a desolate place, humanities edge has the worse living conditions were everybody else uses Nomad contractors instead of their own people, the fact that the stations are at least partially under Ikari control may be interesting for the future, because if Ikari hates Yu Jing once they hate the Japanese ten times more at the moment though the money flows and Ikaris loyalty can be bought. Japanese navy or at least what was left after Yu jing dealt with it (mostly what used Humanities edge orbitals as shielding to avoid been attacked) is inadequate and Sun Tze made first priority JSA never get the funds or materials to have facilities to build or repair a fleet or buy new ships. I do not think the technology of Japan or their industrial power is anything remarkable, all their industrial power and the high tech new military program died in Kuraimori, the few things developed outside Kuraimori are disjointed side projects. Personally I really like how Yu Jing are seem in the fluff, yes, they are totalitarian, yes, they are ruthless, yes, ISS is what it is, but, their society is quite egalitarian as I said, they refuse birth right and nobility privileges, even their "second grade citizens" who "chose" to be second grade citizens have quite a good life (in contrast to their new free life) and make quite the effort to have stability in their nation, the fact they kept the Japanese alive is a testament that despite what independent ISS actions may be the leadership still wants the Japanese in.
@psychoticstorm If the Japanese territory can support the JSA, it was valuable. It can't exist in a quantum-indeterminate state of being valuable when the Japanese hold it but suddenly worthless when Yu Jing does.
Yes, Ikari do not care what your background is or how many want your head and are based in Humanities edge, the best place a convict could go to find a job, especially after he murdered his handlers ectr. ectr. @Hecaton Relevance of power is important here, if you find a million in the street it is a lot money for you, not really for a billionaire, both of you would be happy to find them, the latter's life would not be substantially improved by it.
We've explained the context for how and why PanO supported and intervened on behalf of the JSA, with full international support and approval. Ignoring that is your choice.
People aren't ignoring the point, they're disputing its validity. Just a little bit of a difference there.
Now maintain that creative effort with the weight of not only your own livelihood, but the livelihoods of a companies employees that produce a product that your creative effort is the driving force behind. Its easy to criticize creativity until your the one trying to come up with the next creative breakthrough that will keep the company afloat. Sorry, I respect that you can maintain interest in a hobby for 10 years, but until you understand what its like to have a company rest on your vision, its not comparable.
Essentially PanO played chicken from relatively safety and some questionably legality (initially) and won.
Not when they're calling the action unprovoked and unapproved. Or casually dismissing it as OK because Catholicism or whatever.
@psychoticstorm Absolutely. But a game of chicken has two sides, pushing until one blinks, its the blink on the Yu Jing side that I think people are disputing. It essentially surrenders all sovereignty, in a cutthroat political environment where both military force and legal force are key battlefields. To me, they cannot AFFORD to blink there just to stave off a war, because ultimately this loss means that their foes will push again and again and again, and each time Yu Jing will give in to prevent war. In the end, what is left? I can accept that blink, losing that game of chicken. But only if Yu Jing sees that by doing so you nip in the bud the cascade of weakness. Only if Yu Jing gives in this time because they can be sure they win the next time. That isnt an existential crisis, that is an unfortunate loss but a re-positioning for future gain. @Dude They... arent. They're arguing that this particular set of events selects one narrow, minor aspect of Yu Jing and makes it dominate and wipe out all other aspects of Yu Jing, and stating that to be a bad thing. They're pointing out this event requires the oppressive organs of Yu Jing to not only be ruthless and brutal, but to be ruthless and brutal and incompetent, and asserting that as described the ISS should not in fact BE incompetent.
They can afford it, for most theatres of operation it is mostly pride in stake not important assets or territory, opening a real war with PanO is something they cannot afford with a civil war in their hands, while PanO can and has back up, the only place they really needed and would not lose it was Kuraimori and they did not lose there, they even pacified it before recognition or ceasefire was a thing.
How would they get troops from the Korean Peninsula or mainland China without passing through neutral waters or airspace or aerospace? And, as mentioned before, if the steel wallesque blockade didn’t go into force until after O-12 approval, that would be within legal bounds.
1) I was referring directly to Hecaton's and SKOZZOKONZ's posts. They are ignoring the narrative as it's been described because they prefer their own version of the narrative. Which is fine, but it's also fanfiction. 2) This event focuses very intently on the evils YJ has perpetrated on the Japanese populace. That's the whole point of the story. There are good men and women fighting for YJ - in the Imperial Service and in the StateEmpire army - who are fighting for their country against a treasonous insurrection. But their cause is wrong. In fact, if you read the book, you'll see the Japanese cause isn't exactly right, either. There is nuance. 3) It's not incompetence that drives that ISS to commit war crimes. This is their modus operandi, and it just happened to be exposed on a large scale.
Or, rather, because the steel wall didn’t go into place until after O-12 had approved it and because the reports of the violence had spread and the populace of PanO and the other nations insisted something be done.
The distance between Korea and Japan is miniscule, especially if controlled by one entity. To be honest to assume that yu jing would allow international waters and airspace between their own territories like that so that this sort of situation arises seems silly to me.
My main problem with all of this is how abrupt it changes the perception of Yu jings intellgence services. Going by prior fluff it was supposed to be one of, if not the best intelligence service in the human sphere. Forcing Pano to revamp its own and infiltrating almost every strategic organization in the sphere. Now suddenly they didn' even notice the movements of the insurgents and their deals with with almost all oppsing powers. I feel this whole ordeal came from a business decision and was imposed hamfisted into the fluff. Geopolitacaly there is no possible way for the insurgents to hold Japan, I think it would have been better if they lost it and fought on in its memory or with the overarching objective of taking it back.
