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Did the process and conclusion of "backdoor" improve your Infinity experience?

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Plebian, Apr 3, 2018.

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How do you feel about Backdoor

  1. I have a favorable opinion

    49 vote(s)
    28.5%
  2. I have an unfavorable opinion

    63 vote(s)
    36.6%
  3. I have no opinion

    49 vote(s)
    28.5%
  4. I do not know what that is

    11 vote(s)
    6.4%
  1. Wolf

    Wolf https://youtube.com/@StudioWatchwolf

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    This is a pretty good idea would let the CB design team get their rocks off with their game, but wouldn't cause quite so much anxiety in the fold.

    Generally, I think these narrative type events are great fun for players if they're involved and invested in the event and its outcome, but that actually involving them in the first place has always proved rather difficult - organizing gamers being about as straightforward as herding cats, after all. :smile:

    I seem to remember Blizzard did a fair bit of this with World of Warcraft, and I always thought the situations were fantastic - something like one faction could take over a particular town meaning you couldn't complete quests there until your faction regained control. In practice, this required mobilizing your entire guild and plentiful geared-up others when all they were really interested in was running the next high level raid.

    Similarly, I'd bet that for any group all involved and closely following the event, it was really good fun with a really interesting outcome.
     
    xagroth likes this.
  2. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Bakunin's best Morlock trainer
    Warcor

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    My personal experience with B4ckd00r is slightly positive.
    I could be creative and was able design some HVT / Designated Target / Target Decoy Markers for the Unmasking mission. Also I did participate in a Unmasking Video battle report which was fun as well. Then there was a really nice B4ckd00r mission exclusive tournament hosted by @Blindside I was able to attend.

    On the other Hand the whole Crisis felt irrelevant. Especially the Winter Winner title. Even without the back then 1st placed player's particiption there was little to no chance to tackle his position for me. Also the threat of getting a character banned was not intimidating since I see characters a nice addition but not a neccessary part of a faction (right now after the ban of Kusanagi it doesn't feel like a loss at all). Thus neither the carrot nor the stick had an effect on me.

    Aside the already mentioned thoughts, suggestions or else there are some other thoughts I'd like to share:
    • Challenge winner: with the tool of the monthly ELO winners already present in the ITS it would easy be possible to determine a challenge winner by means of the player's overall ELO gain within the challenge's timeframe. Thus any player has a similar chance to win and and it kind of reflects the player's effort made during that challenge.
    • Timing: for this challenge definitely not ideal. IMO assuming @HellLois knew about the year of the beaten dog's dawn for Yu Jing this challenge could've been used perfectly to add another fluff layer and to fuel the Uprising hype without further "damaging" Yu Jings ITS performance. Especially with YuJing not winning. Because Asuka gets incarcerated -> massive uproar -> Asuka flees or is freed -> #JSAyonara -> Kuroshi Rider -> Xi Szechuan still happy
    @ZlaKhon anything you would like to add?
     
    #122 Tristan228, Apr 5, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2018
  3. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    If something (and at a large scale) was being removed permanently and totally, that would be a stronger argument. However, when a literal handful of models are getting a "time out/penalty box/blue card/sin bin/etc." and then will return (with a short term buff) it seems a weaker argument. The ability to use the "B4ckd00r" minis is simply on hold.
     
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  4. ZlaKhon

    ZlaKhon New scale enthusiast

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    Wow, I wasn't aware of this thread, when I opened this one:
    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threa...inity-narrative-constructive-criticism.19655/

    I had to put down a negative experience:

    - I learned about backdoor when it was over

    - My Aleph, Steel Phalanx, Ariadna, USARF, Corregidor and StarCo don't care at all, but for my YJ this is another blow even hitting the ISS, which currently seems to be the best option to play YJ.

    - I am not hooked by the narrative in this case. E.g. why would Andromeda by a suspect? Did Aleph loose control over her? Do O12 and Aleph currently clash behind the scenes? It all feels rather random.

    - There is a relatively new player in my group, who has Tarek from Beyong Red Veil. We carefully went over lists revolving around him together for use in the next tournament and he spend ours painting the guy as one of his first three painted ininity minis. His disappointment is understandable and I feel bad for him.

    Really sorry to say this, but the only positive thing I can say about backdoor is that it is good to see that CB is experimenting to make the game better. And I definitely prefer that to no changes at all.
     
    #124 ZlaKhon, Apr 5, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2018
  5. Plebian

    Plebian Well-Known Member

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    What are you asking me?
     
  6. itsuncertainwho

    itsuncertainwho Well-Known Member

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    Can we make a list of everyone who's go their knickers in a twist and ban them from using the upgraded characters when they come out of the penalty box?

    Obviously, if some are so offended by the temporary penalty they will be equally offended by an unequal stint where some characters have a bonus and others do not.
     
    emperorsaistone and Wolf like this.
  7. ZlaKhon

    ZlaKhon New scale enthusiast

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    The counterpart of a buff would be a debuff, not a ban.
     
    stargorger and xagroth like this.
  8. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    So you spent some bucks to buy something, go to a competitive game, and they tell you that you can't play with that thing you just purchased, but hey! You still can play however you want on non-competitive games!

    It doesn't matter it's for 2 months, its a bad move because, that model? Second suggested item to buy for people starting Haqquislam, both from the company and the players.
     
  9. Plebian

    Plebian Well-Known Member

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    So, still have no idea what Wolf was asking me after looking through the thread but want to say this:

    With a single exception, the Spanish opponents I had at my two Interplantaries (including the one who beat me!) were amazing opponents, showing perfect grace and class, and were very patient at my inability to speak their language. I have nothing but good things to say about the quality of their gameplay and sportsmanship. Any jingoistic statements by Americans are coming from a position of complete ignorance and hypocrisy.
     
    HellLois, Shoitaan, inane.imp and 8 others like this.
  10. Wolf

    Wolf https://youtube.com/@StudioWatchwolf

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    I'm asking whether it's true (as I recall) that your group allow rolled-dice faces to be altered by the opponent's subsequent rolls?
    Here are all the relevant posts in sequence:

    My question again then, was can you confirm or deny that your group allow this style as a house rule?
     
  11. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant

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    This is the Facebook Russian Troll equivalent of Infinity protocol.

    It's been some years, but having played many, many games with Plebian, we never had a phenomenon where you could alter an opponent's dice outcome by knocking them to a new facing with your own dice.

    On a general note:
    Both players have an obligation to roll on a flat surface... Devoid of other dice... In a location where both sides can see and view the dice outcome.

    It's a prevalent rule of protocol in many US tournaments that if you roll the dice in a location not visible to your opponent, and pick up the dice before your opponent can confirm the results, it counts as a failure.
     
  12. stargorger

    stargorger Well-Known Member

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    You're basing the strength of an argument based on 'how bad' you perceive the problem to be. That's a horrible way to debate, because your perception is irrelevent to everyone else (and vice-versa). What matters is the reality. The reality is the situation upset a lot of customers. As a business owner, your (CB's) job is to NOT upset lots of customers, but the opposite: to PLEASE lots of customers. They MUST find a way to do this. I'm not saying they aren't trying, and it's true you can't please everyone, but I don't know a single person in my group that thought this event was handled well, so from the data I have available, it seems to me most people are UNhappy with this event handling (compounded by the recent JSA split). That is a bad thing for the company from a business perspective.
     
  13. Wolf

    Wolf https://youtube.com/@StudioWatchwolf

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    @barakiel

    Perhaps I have the facts of his report completely reversed then - that the other player claimed it was a house rule of their club; which does seem more likely, as I remarked.

    Either way, I see he’s managed some timely and appropriate words; nicely said @Plebian
     
  14. Plebian

    Plebian Well-Known Member

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    @Wolf thank you for filling me in.

    In one of my matches in Interplanetary (I will continue to not say who it was against) there was a situation where I rolled, and a heartbeat later my opponent rolled. A dice I had rolled was struck by a dice my opponent had rolled. I asked the judge how we should play that, and he said to play it with the original facing, which he was able to verify. I mentioned that I often "played it as they lay" because otherwise it becomes difficult to verify and could create arguments, however, since the judge was watching the roll I had no problem with us using the original facing.

    Note that this turned a hit into another hit and had no bearing on the game, there was no argument and the judge's ruling was immediately adhered to going forward, though I was careful not to roll anywhere near my opponent.

    There were roughly a dozen spectators who can verify my memory of this event including Bostria.

    I don't roll dice one at a time, I consider that slow play and poor sportsmanship.

    Rolling dice to purposely alter an existing roll is obviously cheating and should be dealt with as such.
     
  15. Andre82

    Andre82 Well-Known Member

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    Yes actually.
    Screwing with profiles purely for fluff is bad even if it is a buff.
    Admittedly the buff is not as offensive but it is still a mistake.
     
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  16. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    And I'd argue you're doing the same thing. I don't see it as a problem, and, frankly, expect people to be able to cowboy up for a pair of months. You disagree, fine. We won't see eye-to-eye.

    However, CB has to balance pleasing customers with their vision and plan for their company, and has to evaluate how many complaints, how intense are they, etc., versus moving forward with their plan and their vision. To put example numbers on it, if a given plan of action will affect 100 customers, with 50 being indifferent and continuing on, 30 being immensely happy and increasing their consumption, and 20 being unhappy and ending their consumption, which group ought to receive the most attention? You state that you don't know a single person in your group that's happy with this situation. I, on the other hand, don't know a single person in my group that's unhappy with the situation, to the extent that multiple Adepticon packs were purchased, as well as additional copies of Uprising, and several ITS LE Treason packs. So, which group ought to be listened to more?
     
    Cry of the Wind likes this.
  17. Sanjuro

    Sanjuro Active Member

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    I think these strong ideas get brewed up on the WGC infinity Facebook group where I'm not being mean but they do shout down anyone who disagrees with them. Ok so maybe all groups do that to some extent but it means the ideas are very distilled and when the ideas turn up here the people are surprised everyone doesnt agree with them because they already agreed elsewhere right, and we see two clear groups: a very confident one who all say pretty much the same thing and then everyone else who have to kind of dare to say their own opinions.
     
  18. Cry of the Wind

    Cry of the Wind Well-Known Member

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    I don't disagree with you at all when in comes to the company doing what it thinks is best and progressing the story line. Still you can't ignore that fact that many people actively disliked how this event was handled and many were indifferent. Sure we may never get 100% of people liking something but in this case there is a huge amount of dislike/indifference. The goal is to reach more people liking the events and not ignore or disliking them. Hopefully this was a learning opportunity for what the community thinks is a good idea vs bad idea and the next event is handled better. In this case as far as the poll is when I posted 70% of the community either didn't like or didn't care about the event. My local community would vote 100% indifferent or negative since it had no impact on our games (I even as a vocal person who dislike how it was handled and like the positive for its implications in story don't see much positive comments gaming wise, only comments on the bans not being an issue).

    That is unacceptable as far as I am as customer which in table top games is comparable to an investor. I want the company to succeed because I like the game/universe and have invested money in it. Shares and models may be different but to a front line consumer they are very similar. No one wants their shares to drop in value and no one wants to see people drop a game and move on to the next thing (making their model collection worthless in the gaming side).
     
  19. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    Accepting your premise of a TTG customer being an investor, they are a silent investor at best, able to vote by either increasing or failing to increase their holding only, and I would argue if we believe otherwise we're fooling ourselves. Yes, CB wishes to have the largest possible player base, but, again, they have to balance all of the information, much of which we do not, can not and will not have, to determine what is the best for their company.
     
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  20. Cry of the Wind

    Cry of the Wind Well-Known Member

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    But if they ignore the people most invested (those that bother to post at all) it may hurt those less invested. I'm happy that there have been posts made by CB staff that say they are listening. That's all I ask for when it comes to a game company. Sure I'm not happy with how this was handled but at least I have been left with the notion that CB cares and will fix it for next run. None of us here want them to fail, we all want what's best and to me that means keeping the community involved and caring when something isn't well received by the majority.
     
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