If you want to delve way too deep into extrapolation, we've also got Outrage (spoilers ahead if you haven't read it!), which gives us Stallion Jack being stored fully-assembled and ready in a TAG-bay of sorts in the Dolly Dagger. That is a lot of space to take up, and we know it isn't just unpacked for quick deployment because it is already that way when the Dagger is picking up its passenger from Bourak. At first, I thought this might be because TAGs, once active, CAN'T be disassembled. Maybe it is. But at the same time, who is gonna tell Beba to fold Jack up for storage, because that person is going to be in a world of hurt. And the delay in the Druze TAG appearing, maybe its just the pilot napping, but maybe its because he wasnt a TAG-fetishist so his ride needed to be unfolded and have the arms bolted back on.
There is some indicator of wonkers physics - the Jotum is just one TAG described as a multi-ton vehicle on a bipedal chassis. I'm with you here. I think the Maghariba Guard is the most logical TAG - it also has treads on its feet, presumably to wheel around the battlefield. I personally think good ol' Maggy should be the fastest, strongest TAG in infinity.
There are lots of options. The Druze TAG-Delay could be caused by the startup sequence, or because the pilot was not plugged in (toilet break?)... But I doubt the TAG was not, itself, ready for deployment. I assume the TAGs can be fold over in what would be an uncomfortable position for the pilot/operator, but it's a signal you give to him once its empty ("parking" mode), just so the TAG does not take so much space. The Dolly Dagger had a dedicated bay for TAG transport for fast deployment, it was a "just throw Beba there and the thing will star while she straps in". And the ship was plenty big, Stallion Jack did not take more than a crewmember's cabin... (the problem comes when you wanna do maintenance).
Tags are about 3-4 tons so not that heavy vehicles, they have a lot of armour for the tonnage though.
Exactly. And those big UPS/FedEx panel trucks (aka SWAT trucks) have a 5+ton cargo capacity (14,500lb gross vehicle weight rating).
3-4 tons is insanely heavy for a single contact point. 3-4 tons is that heavy. *Edit: I'd like to elaborate here. It does not matter how much armor they have in comparison to weight. A vehicle with multiple exposed joints will always be weaker than the vehicle without. If you Armor the joints, you reduce maneuverability, which defeats the purpose of a TAG. None of this is new information. This is why walkers as combat vehicles do not see operations in real theaters of war. I'm not really sure why you continued this argument. SWAT trucks are not like a standard freight truck. Not even close - no clue where you get this idea from. and exactly what? If you are agreeing with @psychoticstorm , then you're both wrong - unless of course we throw physics out the window. And we are speaking mostly about a fictional universe, so sure, I can see how you're exactly right.
I think it's a case of reality vs. fiction. TAGs are unrealistic, but they're cool and have minimal impact on rules, so TAG > Tank (as long as you don't try to justify TAGs with realism)
I see, no I was just stating what the fluff says, TAGs are 3-4 tons and have a disproportionately heavy armour for their tonnage. In reality walkers are not a good option because the technology needed to have them in a meaningful way is either way too expensive or unobtainable fact is a towering humanoid figure is impressive and a staple of the the fictional gender, the TAG is the science fiction equivalent, the 3-4 meter tall 3-4 tons heavy combat walker is the top of what we can realistically have (realistic as in it feels real, not it is real) in my opinion in this genre of fiction, the discussion so far in this thread as I see it is about TAGs inside the Infinity universe and how they function in it, not how a real walker vehicle would function and operate in our real world. I think this clears the discussion a bit.
For transport, it's not an issue: the TAG is moved sitting or prone, in a vascular cage, and the van/truck can have 6 wheels (2 on the front and 4 on the back) with reinforced parts. For operations, yeah, its insane for a single point of contact (a foot of the TAG), even if we use distributed contacts (like O-Yoroi's feet. Marut ones are soooo funny... XD), and that is just standing, if we go running or jumping down... go to 9.8 (on Earth, but we can assume gravity is more or less the same all along the Human Sphere). Heck, aren't tank traps big holes the tank goes "face"-first? As the old Legend of the Five Rings said in the crane book, "the biggest weapon is the ground" XD So a modified truck can carry a TAG with more ease than a civilian one ;)
No, tank traps are big metal obstructions. Like these: The germans built concrete versions called Dragon's Teeth
Well, if we're putting on our anoraks then technically "Tank Traps" also include anti-tank ditches, which are (obviously) dug.
The holes in the ground were anti horse traps the most cruel had clay vases to make sure the horses broke their legs, could be an interesting modernisation to see it used against TAGs.
Easy maths... twice as tall as human (3.6m) means 4 times the feet surface for "free". But weight went from 100 to 3000, 30 times (going with the easy case). So pressure went from 100 per given surface to 750 (3000/4), 7.5 times. Big shoes would need to be 7.5 times the surface to be same pressure. If spread equal, that means your feet are 2.74 times of what they normally are (long and wide). Tactical Armoured Clown. Yep, and in some cases with camo. This one has snow, so yep, don't forget the anorak. *grin*
Here is a relevant question, would the construction many Nomad TAGs have help with that? I was wondering that, most TAGs have larger feet than they should but not 7,5 times, but if the support points on the back extend the surface area a lot if they can work that way.
As i remember in the core book fluff the tags from the game where represented a the light and most comon ones. It was somthing like: big warfare machines ( big tags?) are rare beacuse in the context of multiple planets to deffend to mantain big warmachines to conquer and control ground is on a logistic level too much expensive. Something like we still have tanks ( remotes) and something bigger but in a very low number and deployed only in total war situation ( paradiso). But most conflicts are fight with light and easy to deploy units such tags and infantery. And as @xagroth said, in fluff there is a difference between the autonomy of CA batroids and general human sphere remotes. Human sphere remotes operete with a limiteted IA assisted by a nearby "hacker" or tag or EVO operative. And on open warfare EVOs will have a very prominent papper. In core bookbfluff section is explicid that EVOs can hack from one planet to and other, but they will be noticed. Thats why, i especulate, on spec ops an EVO bot is needed, to be able to hidden operate.
Considering the distances involved and the lag, unless somehow there is Faster Than Light comms, that part of fluff needs a retcon; this is not Star Wars after all, so placing the EVO operator, like the remote TAG pilots, in a secure military installation somewhere in the planet or in a ship on its orbit (first option more likely in Paradiso, second for covert ops on small scale) feels more believable. So Tony was not in Neoterra playing with her PS9000 when the Umbra fried her, but inside a PanO installation in Paradiso... which also helps a little with Bit's backstory of being "rescued" by a Morat party when being moved in Paradiso (the whole Alive group was there after hacking their way to Paradiso to find more about Tony and B4ckd00r).
Well they do it using a big and expensive infrestructure of reapeters develoved for Pano and upgraded for Yu Jing ( the only time in all fluff when Yu Jing beats Pano on tech). But i'm sure they where refering only to hackers using a very special installation called Ninchos Astra ( sorry no idea of how to say it in english), not general Pano comunications. Anywat there are some not light scify ( three body problem saga for example) universes that presents forms of comunication that will allow this.
Ok, reality call here: Even now, the most secure way to move humongous amount of data is a frigging trailer filled with "computronium", amazon has one for those clients who want to migrate their petabites to the Amazon Cloud (hint: they find it more secure, faster and cheaper than moving those data using fast business internet connections...). Infinity space travel between solar systems is done through wormholes. Some of those are stated in the RPG to require multiple travels between routes, an example is YJ-Earth, that requires a one hour trip through the dark void of space once they exit the YJ wormhole and have to enter the Earth wormhole... Lightspeed comms is a thing, only way to go faster is FTL comms. Remember, the light of the Sun is 8 minutes old (more or less) when it reaches Earth! And there is a signal delay between Earth and the Mars missions, and you need to make a round trip: some minutes for the signal sent from Earth to arrive at Mars, and that same time for it to be back... Imagine that in a combat environment, just one second delay is more than risky (try playing an FPS game with 1000ms LAG...). So yeah, having an installation on a moon is viable to a degree, and there are repeaters, but right now the fastest way is using light signals, so, again, unless Infinity has FTL comms, the limit in comms is a laser coming out of somewhere and using satellites that receive that laser signal and chain it so it reaches wherever. So, a base in a moon could work, but a base on the other side of a black hole? I can't believe it.
On the subject of TAGs as light combat machines: Don't we have confirmation that tanks and self propeled artillery exist in the Infinity setting? If that's the case, TAGs might be the heavier one can use in a spec ops scenario, while in actual warfare they might be used as just support pieces or urban assault squads. Although it does bring up the question of how hard it is to dismantle a tank. Because weapons like missile launchers and autocannons are supposed to be able to penetrate tank armor too, right? But they have a hard time going through a Jotum's arm 10. Should we assume all tanks are arm 11?
