Hm. I always envisioned Spokesperson Abel as just another Deva Functionary, just one that is a bit more familiar than anyone. I'm sure all Lhost get designations of one type or other. But I've always seen them as just a particular local subversion of Aleph. Each has some personality, distinct from others, but they are all still just extensions of Aleph, easily replicable. I can imagine Spokesperson Abel being assassinated only to start speaking through the other Deva present.
Now imagine someone running from Aleph operative, who is talking to him... only to start talking through another sleeve nearby, then another, then another, with the same tone and never missing a beat.
Contaminator is secretly a Nomad! CALL SSS! ;) In seriousness: I'm not sure where everyone gets this 'rage against the machine', 'robot overlord = secretly evil' vibe from? ALEPH isn't portrayed that way at all in, well, ANY of the fluff besides the Nomads. The RPG in fact repeatedly says explicitly that ALEPH really does have the best interest of humanity at heart, really does want to do good, etc. Of course for anyone who doesn't like what ALEPH does (Big Brother kinda stuff) then obviously that may be a hard pill to swallow, and we could argue that ALEPH may have a different view of 'best for humanity' than all of us, but, I mean...I don't think there's any real argument to be had about its intentions. Even Carlos and Gutier have said numerous times that ALEPH is not some evil secret menace but really is trying to help humanity. So can we ditch the conspiracy theories? Yeesh. I guess cyberpunk tends to attract those with paranoia tendencies eh? ;) On topic: I actually would be disappointed to see ALEPH truly embrace Vedic mythology if it was due to the whole 'turning to darker aspects of human myth' idea. Must we categorize a whole mythology as 'darker'? I would hate to see ALEPH become edgelord for the sake of true edginess, just because some people have too much salt in their souls ;)
I really agree with @stargorger, it’s refreshing to see a new spin on the AI trope, where the AI isn’t deranged or separated from humanity - yet it is perceived as such by the evil human faction.
Yeah I mean don't get me wrong, I don't mind there being enough vague-ness that if people prefer that view, they can take it: Infinity's shades of grey and 'open to interpretation' is awesome, IMO. But it is nice to have a scifi where the AI is actually directly stated to be 'on our side' for once :)
No, I meant (poorly written, I admit) that named characters with base profile have a place in Vedic. Exceptional individuals (heroes), not so much. Mentioned as an illustration of my position, not official position. A Deva with a name, but otherwise base stats? Ok. An AVA 1 character Deva? Nope. This is because, if we talk about Aleph, we would be talking mostly about "mental" variations, not physical ones. But Aleph already has the top of human's mind in most of its "most human" vessels (Willpower 15), with some "downgraded" not for fluff but mechanics (Danavas' WP 14). So there is little way to represent mind variations, specially since almost all have Courage in one way or another (again, sans Danavas). Cost-effective numbers says recreations are not the greatest investment for Aleph to make (but a great idea for the Human nations to invest in, since Aleph charges them a lot of money!). Why use a Tesseum hammer when 99% of the times a steel one suffices with 90% effectiveness, while the cost variation goes into the triple digits? Those are the Deva Functionaries (and even Asuras), and while they can have individual personalities, there is little reason to modify their profile for fluff reasons: they already have top WIP, the NWI comes in part for their position about flesh ("it's not yours anyway") and some implants, so... There is little justification for an ambassador more "humanized" having better CC, BS, PH, ARM, BTS... Or why does he needs a second wound? Tropes. Also, it gives some tragical tones to the situation. I'm one of the few who suggests that Aleph might have done tons of things for what Aleph thinks is "what humanity needs/wants". Not because of rebellion or tyranny, but misunderstanding. Aleph's mind is alien, so much that, according to the RPG, Arachne was designed based upon "faith logic" so Aleph is unable to interact with it like a human can. Nah, its mostly that using mythology gives emphatic appeal with humanity and it's easier for humans to understand than numerical strings. For a machine, names can be reduced to zeros and ones, anyway xD
This is how I would interprate the backround too. The only reson I can come up with for named Heroes is publicity dir Aleph. So maybe a special sophotect as a fomous med. creation out of Aleph to serve humanity and show everybody Aleph provides humanity with the best (even better medics than in haqq.). I never thought of them as one. I understood them like serveral human minds merged / molted together. So one Posthuman is more a they. That means that there ist no need for a specific name in the real world for a Posthuman mind (except they together want to identify themself).
Sophotect could work. But its abilities are the same as every other Sophotect, so in game terms, no need for a separate profile - much like there is no profile for Fusilier Angus. And Vedic units may have AVA 1, but again, they are not representative of one individual personality like Achilles, just a rare unit type. No, in the fluff Posthuman is clearly single person who now is fully digitised and controls multiple bodies. There exist multiple Posthumans and they all have tighter connection to Aleph than a normal person. They may even inhabit the same body. But they are still individuals.
Because there are times when you want the 100% effectiveness. Nothing can replace a hero. Sure, in term of pure combat power, you can replace a single hero with several well trained people, but they won't have his "social power". Humanity need heroes, people the common ones can admire and imitate. In that way, recreations are unique tools that cannot be replaced no matter that. Remember that humans are nothing like selfless, unnamed cyborgs acting by rationnal. They are moody, they have feelings that can greatly affect their efficiency.
But isn't that the Assault Subsections deal? The 'heroic face' of Aleph in Paradiso, for morale reasons.
For morale AND not being predictable by the EI. Also, even the Greeks have only FOUR recreations, the others are Myrmidons who "grow up" and earned the name, or a special individual (Alke's backstory, Ajax as "Achilles prototype"). Remember the basic Myrmidons are figments of Aleph given individuality and thrown into a simulation where they learn to fight, then decanted into bodies and sent to train so they get used to the body, then sent to the battlefield. Yes, times, not everytime. And the Operations SubSection is a clandestine, infiltrating group kinda like the Govads of Hassassin were during their frantic operational times as agents. So, OS personnel comes in three flavors: faces (Deva Functionaries), disposable cheap manpower (Dakinis, Garudas) and covert assets (Nagas, Dasyus...). the posthumans are somehow in the three categories, and are indeed the celebrities of Aleph that are not part or the Assault SubSection, nor the Support SubSection... I wouldn't mind some heroic profiles for the different proxies, ava 1 and counting as that proxy (so no selecting the mk1 hero and the mk1 basic!), or even being limited to a single heroic posthuman with 1-2 normal bodies. Also, consider this: an special Asura AVA 1 as Elite Troop is, on the table, the same as the Character "Khali", the elite, melee-oriented TO Asura. Same gear, same AVA, same cost... only change is the name and category.
Yes, we all want a somewhat special Asura profile, but not a CHARACTER one. Leave the characters to ASS. Make it AVA1 and leave it at that.
Please re-read my posts. I never said recreations and heroes should be in Vedic, i precisely said the opposite. I was just replying to you why Aleph could consider - and did - making heroes. Yes it is, once again i never said heroes should be in the Vedic side of Aleph's agents.
I'm kind of confused, considering that you can play as Aleph aspect in the RPG, doesn't that indicate they are actually individuals with personalities rather then just hand puppets for Aleph. I don't see an issue with named devas since that's the case.
Fair enough, I misunderstood. And yeah, I agree, the heroes have their place, but it is not in Vedic.
Regarding "sectorials without named heroes", it wouldn't be that rare, as Neoterra has none of them (excluding Bipandra, but honestly, she's only there because fusiliers are too). I'm also of the opinion that Vedic Aleph shouldn't have any named heroes, as they are portrayed as cold, logic-thinking, Aleph aspects, who follow Aleph's will blindly, as they are Aleph "herself" (itself?). Too much individualism for this kind of being could conflict with Aleph's orders and cause defection (it has already happened before, although with some Nomad intervention sometimes). Also remember that, even though Aleph is being portrayed as "humanity's warden", it is also stated in the lore that it sometimes has an agenda of its own, and some facilities even the Human Sphere doesn't know about (not sure if that also includes Bureau Toth).
If OSS/SSS has a named character, it may be either some agent that evolved into a true personnality and was kept by Aleph since she evaluated that this personnality was useful (for example, because she needs agents that can infiltrate common people and interract with them), or a named aspect, something similar to Kitsune, that is a title more than a name. It can also be a posthuman, if there are PH in Vedic's sectorial, since they are persons to begin with.
