I played The Grid today and discussion boiled down to how to kill the Antennas. I was told that because Antennas do not count as the keyword "Troopers" they are not valid targets for FO's to Target for guided munitions, apparently this came up in something called Wotan, and this also apparently makes other attacks that rely on the keyword "Troopers" like D-Charges in CC mode also unusable against Antennas. Now I thought this was pretty stupid at the time because if you take this line of logic it this means the Antennas are basically an illegal target for just about every attack in the game. Take a CC attack. It requires "The user must be in base to base contact with an enemy." Ok, what's an enemy then? P.14 of the rulebook: Great. Now the Antennas can't be targeted because they're not Troopers which means they're not an enemy. Has this inconsistency been cleared up or addressed anywhere? Did the Wotan thing get overturned at some point? (Also while I'm here why the hell is a mono-filament weapon able to slice a Jotum in half but can't be used to push over a S3 bundle of metal rods?)
That's correct about Targeted state as all the Effects of the state require a trooper. CC Attacks etc. can be made against the Antenna because the Scenery Structure rules (http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Scenery_Structures) specifically let you attack the Scenery Item.
I think there was ruling you cannot use guided ammo on antennas as they are not entering "TARGETED" state (because they are not troopers). So you can shoot rockets at them, you just won't benefit from "guided/targeted" trait.
Ok so another question arising from the scenery rules: I have a trooper prone behind the antenna which is S3, so the enemy cannot see him. Enemy wants to fire a circular impact template weapon with the anti material trait. My trooper would get caught up in the blast. This prevents my opponent from attacking the antenna? Am I reading that correctly?
No because of this rule in the red Important! box: A Scenery Item cannot be chosen as the target of an Attack that would also affect troopers, be they enemy or allied.
Yes and no. First, all circular templates are either able to Speculative Fire (grenades and the such, and I think none are also Anti-Material), and second all Anti-Material weapons able to place a circular template can also fire a non-template. If the player needs, at all costs, to place a template, the ruling might be that if the target is a Scenery Item then no Trooper gets affected (call it "they were at different heights" if you want), or if the target is the Trooper, the scenery item is not affected. Edit: so, I can fire the AP+EXP no-template version of the Missile Launcher against the Scenery Item and ignore your prone trooper, essentially. I think the only weapons with Anti-Material that don't have a non-template attack are the missile remotes... Anyway, as I said before, targeting where you don't hit the enemy trooper (because of height difference) should be enough.
Circular templates cause a spherical explosion effect. There is no way to center that sphere on the S3 antenna without catching the prone trooper behind it in it. That's... exactly what I'm saying. The rule seems to create an interaction that makes absolutely no sense in terms of gameplay mechanics. Completely ignoring whether the trooper is prone behind it or whatever. The fact that for some reason my trooper will be forced to hold fire on an objective they were otherwise committed to destroying for the sake of the mission because they are suddenly concerned for the wellbeing of an enemy model they were just trading gunfire with a moment ago in the course of their mission is let's put it bluntly, a pretty stupid rule. That's why I'm trying to sanity check this to see if I've missed something because it seems so stupid.
It's there to prevent you from abusing incidental fire - particularly when playing with destructible terrain where you can shoot at any wall. You may feel free to house rule it that you're allowed to shoot there, but be aware that strangers will be playing with different rules.
Ok, so I am reading it correctly. It's a dumb rule that should be changed. I can hit both the antenna and the trooper if I target the Trooper, but not if I target the Antenna. That's just asinine and should be FAQ'd.
I'm sorry, too early in the morning here, I misunderstood and thought you were asking if you *could* hit the trooper prone behind the scenery item. Your understanding is correct. Intentionally placing a trooper within the blast radius of a scenery item will prevent it from being targeted by missile launchers and anything else that's anti-material with an impact template.
Ok, here we go: So, first of all, you have to be able to trace a line from the center of the template (an orange dot in the printed ones, a circular hole in the plastic/acrylic ones) to the Silouette of the troopers. If said troopers are prone (S0) and at a different height, then 99% of the times they won't be affected (that's the reason for the prone medic 5cm back, and on a different height, on deployments). Second, take into account reasons and rhyme: The rule is there to avoid players firing templates to pieces of terrain in order to avoid a FtF roll (because they can get an angle, the enemy trooper is prone, or even because they are willing to risk taking a CD ARO without FtF). Consoles, antennas and the like are markers without S, unless you use a piece of terrain (of an official partner, to avoid problems) in which case the S is that of the element, not a determined one. Now, personally I'd say that you either use the non-template version or, if it's a weapon unable to do so, you won't affect the prone trooper, and that's it, since the idea of the rule (prevent exploits) shouldn't cause other exploits (place expendable troops to avoid template weapons against scenery)
The rule only makes sense in the terms of playing with optional scenery rules where you can attack just about anything which isn't part of a typical game, certainly not an ITS one. It makes zero sense when applied to a few markers on the table that you go into the game with the express interest of blowing up, like in The Grid. The logical thing that clearly should've been done is to FAQ objective scenery so they are not subject to this rule. Also I can't believe objectives haven't been given a clear default silhouette. Apparently the local group treats every 40mm objective regardless of whether it's a marker or a home made model or something from an official partner as S3. That also is a no brainer for something as widespread as an ITS rules package, I am surprised CB haven't figured that one out. That's so basic I thought the home brew rules were the official ones. :/
Simmer down a bit. You're entitled to your opinion, but it's an opinion. Talk with your buddies about house ruling it if you don't like it, but it's an interaction that should be dictated in the official documents by gameplay balance concerns not vapid realism. Is it more important for there to be a mechanic that forces you to focus on completing an objective than to allow you to try and do both? If yes, then screw realism. Not that using a blast weapon here is actually realistic - using a blast missile is targeting the trooper and not the scenery item while ignoring the game's abstraction to justify ignoring the game's targeting rules.
It's a dumb rule interaction, I'm sorry you don't like that but that's what it is. It's clearly an oversight between rules designed for irregular theme/campaign play that have been shoehorned into the mainstream ITS rules without being properly adjusted and it's something that should've been FAQ'd. Saying it's just a mechanic to try and make you focus on playing the objective instead of killing models isn't correct. It's not it's just an oversight. Let's say I have a Son-Bae with Smart Missiles as my only ability left to destroy antennas. Knowing this on the final turn of the game my opponent starts moving models next to Antennas. I can now only attempt to do the mission and attack the Antenna if I don't actually attack the antenna. I cannot simply make a normal roll against the objective, I must move the Son-Bae so it can see an enemy model and engage in a face to face roll to try and hit both targets at once.
Welcome to Legacy Rules, from S2 and the first ITS ever made. Sadly, things change slowly. The only official ruling about the Silouette of the objective markers are a) size of the base, b) if it's an official partner's item then it covers what it covers, and if it's a marker it's not even that. Personally, we''ve been using whatever is avaiable if needed, with Silouette defined by base size (2, 3 or 4). My suggestion would be going and ask this in the https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/its-9-question-and-answer.469/ post, and pray.
That is entirely your own subjective opinion. I am personally confident that this interaction is entirely intended and not accidental at all, in order to preserve fair and challenging game play. N3 reduced the amount of simulation significantly to improve game play.
I don't believe that for a second when it can create an interaction like the one with the Son-Bae. Why did I lose? Oh, well I wasn't actually allowed to complete the scenario despite having a model left that could do it. To shoot the last objective I'd have to cross the entire board with my remote to get LOS to a model behind the corner of a building but was close enough to the objective to disqualify my ability to target it. Yeah, nah.
