Guys, take a seat for a second and imagine this would be a video game. Pressed for an early release we would get Immortal Army right now and ASAP, current state of development. An unfinished patchwork of barely tested concepts thrown together to have something to release. An Infinity Faction as if being made by EA & Bioware. Oh and unlike a video game it would not be patched for quite some time. Imagine the reaction of people who are screaming bloody murder for an early release right now. You would never see the end of their whining. Ignore them, there is no way to satisfy their shortsighted demands. Stop this madness and settle for the best option right now - grudginly waiting for IA to run it's whole development cycle. Even if it takes the bigger part of another year. This won't be much fun, but Vanilla ist still very serviceable. And I for one expect IA (and possibly White Banner) Closed Battle lists to be much better than what we've seen for Sval. Let's hope for a nice bandaid we'll get to rip off in time. We will not be happy with the results otherwise. Appreciate they want to do this properly although it is quite inconventient for now. While we're at it, it is time to get over the JSA split. It was a seperate decision and ultimately has nothing to do with us anymore. Let it be water under the bridge.
I can agree that IA doesn't need to come out now, what should've been done is some stuff in Vanilla saw some changes in the interim. Things like raising the AVA on Guilang to fill vacant mid field skirmishing Things like providing new Ninja profiles, FO, EM weapons. Providing some additional minelayer profiles, like Lunah. We now know she sees less play than Sun Tze V2, she could use a buff anyway. I would've been considerably less angry at this entire debacle if these sorts of considerations had been made for us. However, no such considerations were made. It's clear that CB is heavily out of touch with the community and extremely amateurish when it comes to planning and product management.
You mean an army that's supoosedly been done and tested as of summer 2017 being not ready for release somehow? It's in the pipe, ready for release slot, just like a whole bunch of stuff.
@Triumph , IA doesn't need to fill JSA's boots, it only needs to expand outwards from where Yu Jing is. I'd also argue that while Guilang with higher AVA would be nice, that's also not an area where stuff is missing. Don't really need more spam of what we have, but what's needed is the variety that went missing.
@Teslarod I think you're looking at this from the wrong perspective. Those who've been calling for Invincible Army to be released as a way to fill in gaps opened by JSA's departure are not looking to have the army released before it is ready, they're objecting to the fact that CB didnt already have it ready for release when they knew they'd be removing the JSA profiles. This whole issue is intimately linked to what has gone on with JSA, if the split didn't happen then there's be hope for IA, grumbling when it didn't appear, ending with 'at least we aren't Shas or Tohaa'. As for 'getting over' the JSA split... it just happened in Army like two days ago, I'm just getting started on figuring out alternative tactics and lists to replace the ones I've lost. If its water, it is still very much upstream of the bridge we're standing on.
That might have been the case for the more reasonable members, but this post would be unnecessary if it was just for them. I started this thread to address this: https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/pack-it-up-boys-and-girls-invincible-army-isnt-next.3521/ https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/invincible-army-had-better-be-in-may.3083/ Do you mind that I'm inclined to disagree or do I have to link Triumph's post history as well? The whining has been going on for weeks. It started prematurely, escalated without end in sight and should have run it's course by now. Healthy discussions and critcism within reasonable boundaries is good and should be encouraged. This however had turned into a cesspool and desperately needed a reality check. You're naturally free to disagree.
The army is already tested, it finished testings even before Vedic. They could release the army list any moment if they wanted, something they won't do of course because they're still working on art concepts. They were already working on concepts by the time it was Interplanetario 2017, and they are still working on them as Bostria has hinted in this last seminar. But I recall last year's seminar Bostria hinted during the Q&A that YuJing was going to receive a lot of releases during 2018. Now I understand he was probably thinking of JSA as "YuJing" miniatures whe he stated that. But with around 20 new profiles CB must release for YuJing they'd better start now. I'm quite confident IA is still happening this year, actually, with Tunguska as a starter on May and probably a 2nd faction as starter on November (I say Vedic) my bets are on a Gencon IA vs Varuna boxset. I doubt they are going to release a 4th sectorial for PanO or Ariadna with YJ having a single sectorial, or Vedic when that sectorial ended testings later than IA.
So basically: Some people are, according to your tastes and possibly forum policy acting out too strongly on this forum. I don't actually disagree. But hence, anyone not "over the JSA split" at this point are wrong and need a "reality check"? There's been other such notions posted on this YJ section of the forum, and they make very little sense. What you're posting isn't a reality check. It's a statement for people to stop complaining, full stop. I play ISS, so aside from some NA2 list getting a better version of my Wu Ming link, it's not like this is the end of the world for me. The tone of CN throughout this, however, is insulting to me as a customer. Here's the major reason why: The departure of JSA profiles has removed a massive chunk of YJ identity (the melee focus is pretty much gone, the tricky TO midfielders are just about gone, bikes are a thing of the past). As a customer, I want to know what the envisioned role for YJ as a faction is going to be, moving forward. There's been zero effort invested in this. Just to be clear, this isn't about storyline (although if we get to play the comic-book villain genocide part in Uprising with absolutely nothing to counterweigh this "look at the bad guys" syndrome, that might actually drive me from the game, too). It's also not about faction power (I'm not competitive enough to see the problem, personally). It's about identity and direction of the faction. I guess I can play Vedic for a while (assuming it's out soon), until someone decides to point in a direction on this, and it's not like my ISS care at all anyway - same as ever on that front, really.
As a side note, @Janzerker , they are going to keep, en estimate, of at least 3 more or less iconic new units secret for the reveal, so those won't be getting a release ahead of time.
I've seen @Triumph 's posts, and I guess I will have to disagree with you on how appropriate they are. They and some other posters as well, are at times unabashedly angry. They are frustrated, because this has been frustrating. They are upset because this has been upsetting. There's nothing unreasonable about it, and the appropriate point to stop... is it a time limit? Is it until questions are answered? It is a very subjective thing. Now you might go with a different argument, that expressing frustration is pointless because CB won't wont make changes based on it, won't learn lessons from it, won't acknowledge it in any way. I hope that isn't the case, at very least there has to be something to be learned here. Maybe... here, look at it another way. CB has a plan, right? And in their wisdom they put upset statements right there on the release schedule ^_^:
I agree that it would be a bad idea to release the whole sectorial. Releasing one of the less ambitious units early would be possible and I think would be very well received, but I can understand reluctance to do even that. There's not much for CB to do right now other than to release the CBLs (which I think would have been better received earlier with the blog post) and actually address the grievances (which they don't seem keen on doing). Angry people being riled up to quite this point is something I don't think CB could have prepared for, but they shouldn't have been in a position where unsupervised Warcors have to do their PR for them in the first place. But that's the point. The sectorial should have been ready. Something should have been ready at least, even a preview (even the Shooting Star hype image was an accidental leak). Otherwise CB should have pulled their punches, which wouldn't have been hard. People are still angry, but I don't think many are actually expecting anything substantial anymore. If they do they won't get it, simple as that. Just something insubstantial would be a thousand times better than nothing though, saying "we fucked up, but we'll do better in the future and we can make it up to you in the future, hey check out this cool YJ dossier" instead of "no don't worry about it it's fine, you are wrong to be mad, our stats say you shouldn't be mad". I get that people are getting tired of the complaining. Many complainers are getting tired too. But telling everyone to ignore the shitshow at the centre of this all doesn't make it go away. CB has a chance to learn from this, and if this kind of event is going to happen in the future then it's in everybody's best interests to make sure they do.
Yeah, essentially. Everyone just accepting this as if it's some gracious act that CB have done would only reinforce that it's been a well received change. Evidently, quite a few players are not happy (and that's predominantly, from what I can tell, because CB basically did a piss poor job of minimising any kind of backlash - nothing to say it's not all gloom, just some incredibly vague "later will be better" and plenty of CB and community "just suck it up/yay tears"). Having something about the Invincible Army ready to show the disenfranchised Yu Jing players would give something to hold on to, something positive to focus on instead of having only the negative of losing 20ish units entirely. Considering that they have plans ahead of time, that's not too much of stretch to think they might have prepared that - but no, just dismissal and fuel for the trash fire that they lit.
I think what confuses me most is why other factions are 'enjoying' yu jing tears. I hardly imagine Pan-O would be cheering if they lost MO, or Nomads would cheer if Corregidor randomly vanished. It's not good for the game, or the community, to have this kind of thing happen - and I think everyone, in every faction, should be demanding CB handle this better, so that way when their faction gets 16+ profiles ripped out, there is something in place to fix it. If any of the other games I played had done something like this, it would have had outrage from every faction. I don't get how players are so entrenched in faction loyalty that they want their fellow gamers to be screwed over.
That everyone should just suck it up, stop complaining and just live with it? Yes, in apparent contrary I've got this memo :P
Okay, go back and read it again. It says "IA will crap if released now, but better if it's released later" that's just bullshit and that's what I'm pointing out. The "cycle" the OP talks about has already run to completion.
Which is kind of approaching the issues that some of us complainers have at the wrong angle. CB should have had IA ready to go at around the same time, with something to show remaining YJ players when the secession dropped. 'We' want it reasonably soon, because that would be the best way to mollify those who are angry. That's not happening, of course, which is feeding back into the problem (ie, that CB shit the bed). A note that they're going to release a CBL later in the year is less than minimal and amounts to salt in the wound ("We're going to do stuff, but we couldn't be bothered to prepare for it, have fun getting shafted for a year or more, bye!")
Invincible Army has been set to release since last year, quit spreading misinformation. Also my thread was never meant to be a rant, It was just announcing that IA wasn't coming out next like many in this forum thought.
