I'm taking a punt here that on average the Raiden inclusion is scenario based which means he'll largely only turn up in one list. However sure some people might put him in both just because they like the model, just like it's highly probable that all the starter box models have a higher representation than their unit value actually is purely because players play what they own.
For what it's worth, my local experience is that either both lists include a Raiden or neither do. But that's purely local.
My take on it is if the mission has close objectives, so Capture and Protect, Transmission Matrix etc one list will be built to handle this. Raiden(s) will find their way into these lists mostly because they're the cheapest source of minelayer, and they happen to pack a decent ARO as well. The other list is probably designed for lots of far objectives. Supplies, Unmasking, The Grid, Supremacy etc. The Raiden doesn't get to come to these. If your event had nothing but missions that suited the Raiden, then yeah he might turn up in both lists for me. Conversely if your event had no missions that suited him, then I wouldn't bring him in either. But I feel like that it's unlikely the event causes the all or nothing based on scenarios.
We'll have to agree to disagree on that, that's the kind of mission where I'm usually facing a Raiden HRL on surprise ARO duty.
It's not really a surprise when you know what it is and YJ don't have alot of regular camo that habitually sits around in the DZ and doesn't move, but I can appreciate your locals prefer to run a Raiden over a TR bot as their ARO piece.
PanO have more pictorials than everybody else because mainly knights were massively popular and they got their own sectorial, a sectorial that can win an interplanetario, but a sectorial that is really at best half a sectorial and a one trick pony. I never considered MO as a 3rd sectorial and I mainly play it, but if people are looking purely at numbers then yes, PanO has 3. As long as they can express their opinion in a coherent manner, preferably with some constructive feedback, but absolutely in a polite manner that is not insulting to anybody, they are free to express it here. Please understand that I do take care of the feelings of Yu Jing players and I have been extremely lenient on their reactions and the language used, but this is getting aggravating to me and to the wider forum community and the grace period has for many passed. I do not remember that, I do remember complainers demanding IA to be released immediately to compensate for "the grievous loss" though. Another old tactic I have seen is placing the Ninja sniper were the enemy sniper would be (or is, not many infiltrating TO snipers) and just ARO the sniper, kill him in CC and then take his vantage point. You can call whoever you want without swearing. 1) I got Bostrias joke (that as filmed way in advance of the announcement), some of you took it at hart to be insulted by a joke, I don't get it we will probably take it into consideration for the future. 2) you cannot possibly say that with a straight face. It is not a justification and never was, they gave you an insight to the thought process involved in the decision. The can be dedicated hunters, but are more flexible than that yes, an Oniwaban of named and unnamed variety can be used like an impersonator, the Ninja can do the same thing, because they did the same thing before the Introduction of Oniwabans they just did it far less efficiently, but can do it while been a specialist. Statistics are a tool, how you collect the data and how you interpret the data is the difficult part and why many mistrust statistic. Now if people did not participate in ITS tournaments and did not use the official army list builder to make lists, well you opted your voice out of the data collection CB uses and it is known they use it for years. Edit I have to point out that the data shown yesterday is extremely simplified, data collection is much more involved and as bostria said regarding raiden for example, they know exactly what profiles are used and how much.
Cause that was me that did that quite a few times. The most memorable was when Thamyris infiltrated on a building right on 24". Literally on the exact spot where i HD'ed my ninja sniper.I went second. Thamyris walk to the end and does his thing only for me to pop out and shank him in the back.
https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/the-jsa-uprising-model-split-question.2102/page-2#post-35948 Any questions?
I like how you continue to pretend your argument has any shred of merit. Again. Go and push a link of Hospitaller off an objective with a Ninja. What's that? The Ninja got completely destroyed? You know what model is very good at dealing with high cost bully units like that? It's a Kitsune. You know which model is absolutely garbage at dealing with the same problem units? Ninjas. Perhaps you should go and troll elsewhere.
Please, try to cool down, at least a bit. As you can see, I'm a warcor. I own lot of JSA models. I strongly disagree with current aproach and changes. As the result I didn't pre-order starter and not even the book. On the other hand, this is over the top already. I can tell you that you came to the point when some peole make fun of you, some ignore you, but if you keep up, you'll be left alone as a lone internet warrior. There is no sense in reactions like this. It never changed anything. Better start some constructive thread and try to find a way how to get out of this at least a bit satisfied.
This particular tangent has nothing to do with the JSA split, it's purely on Pyschoticstorm trying to tell people that the Ninja and the Oniwabans fulfill the same roles. They absolutely do not. It's about as on the level as his efforts elsewhere arguing that Bipandra didn't get the short end of the stick compared to the rest of the Dire Foes roster. He's got a very selective memory and a very flexible opinion on what dice percentages constitute as good when it comes to heading up the CB defense force.
I get it... Oniwaban and ninja are infiltrating TO camo skirmishers. That's it. Point difference between Shinobu and cheapest specialist ninja with combi was 7 pts. Lack of smoke grenades, higher MA and superior infiltration is crucial. Basic Oniwaban is even whole different story. Ninjas doesn't have bsg. End of discussion. Psychotic is wrong here on many levels. Anyways, try to swallow it, because after all that's what we have to do, if we want to have fun with this game.
Thanks. For the rest though, it is your opinion, it is not my fault you cannot see the value of a second (third) doc in PanO or the utility of the Ninjas in killing targets, or doing similar stuff with less efficiency and also been objective grabbers.
Unlikely. I'll be mad about this until CB does something to warrant otherwise. I'm straight up ditching on the campaign and won't be running any local events for it.
See there's that textbook fanboy flexibility when it comes to percentages. Ninjas have 40% chance to inflict a wound against a Magister Knight while risking 38% chance to die in return, but hey that's but a minor setback, good ol' Ninja will deal with that pesky Knight fireteam you need to get off an objective no problemo. They definitely do the same job as Oniwabans!
And that's the only example you have, on the other hand oniwabans are perfect fro completing objectives, not been specialists and versus single targets? they fair slightly worse. I never said Ninjas are the same with Oniwabans I said they can do the same job with less efficiency, especially if you have two on the cost of one (not specialists though).
Yes, except they can't do the job @Triumph's asking the Oniwaban to do (40% of 1W vs a 2W target that has a 38% chance of wounding you is not an actual option). It's not 'less efficiency' it's 'so unlikely to complete the task as to not be worth trying'.
When people say "less efficiency" they are normally referring to something still possible within reasonable expectations. Multiple people have already pointed out the primary job of Oniwabans was to find, kill, and punish high cost aggressive pieces to keep them out of your face and to put the absolute fear of god into any opponent trying to bully you with them. Ninjas, cannot, will not, ever fulfill this role without profile changes. They do not hit hard enough to manage it. You keep trying to argue that they can do this. We keep pointing out unless you want to spend 7 orders trying to statistically remove a TAG it won't happen, and don't even get started on tough, high cost link teams or HI in general.
If you want to get rid of a tough target, you don't expect to be doing it with objective grabber. You just want to kill it asap to make room for your other guys to get up the field and finish the job. You just keep repeating faulty ideas. At least try to get your mathematics right: the cheapest ninja specialist is 29 pts with no burst weapon. That's 58 pts for two of them. Compared to Oniwaban for 41 pts, that's roughly a 20% miscalculation on your side. Believe it or not, this is really anoying even for me. EDIT: yes, non-specialist option is 26 pts. More acurate, but no, not close enough. 11 pts is a lot of points.
