Gecko's are Hot as. Those S5 HI arent running around packing dual Assault pistol specialists, Dam14 B4 Combis, Dam16 MK12s Dam15 Panzerfausts and Blitzen for cheap as chips in a duo
@Darkvortex87 Don't forget that the Daiyokai can get knocked unconscious with shock ammo, which is everywhere. Definitely something the Gecko has on it.
read better my post above, daiyokai has better weapon all around. By the way, we don't know if fatality L1 is going to stay on TAGs, since the skill is written on ITS rules. (So they don't apply on all other existing ruleset) While the daiyokai will keep it anyway since it's written on the profile. maybe I play on different tables than yours, but on my table, the places where a S6 can hide are few and sometimes far out. An S5 Hi that can go prone, instead has no such problems. In my games, the s5 Hi last far more game time than the typical gecko.
Musing on how deep Japan was involved in Yu Jing tech products, much like I don't think Secession itself needs to be crippling to be significantly harmful, I don't think you need to have Japanese in critical positons to have their departure do lasting damage. Just as Yu Jing without Japan, Yu Jing's key projects and industry ought keep going without Japanese minds participating, but just as Yu Jing within the Human Sphere they will be lessened for the loss. I've tried to go back and look at the setting in general, to see how it presents Japanese importance and significance within Yu Jing. N3 Human Sphere gives us a number of lines which are key (most of which are also content in earlier books). Page numbers are for the English book, not sure on how they map to the Spanish edition. We see on pp.49 "The Party and Yu Jing society should consider the Japanese question a matter of priority of the first magnitude because the current situation endangers the integrity of the entire StateEmpire as a multicultural composition, and could be the catalyst of its disintegration." That's from Golden Needle, a show on Yu Jing Maya. It refers to the pre-Uprising place of the Japanese repressed minority, and has been proven correct in its way, but the key here is that the Japanese question and its answer are considered something that will ripple through the StateEmpire, threatening its very existence. The Yu Jing Ministry of Information, obsessed with social stability, seems to have considered this reality so self-evident it wasn't even censored. On pp.50 we are told Japanese corporations pay an additional tax to the state, loss of which will have at least some budget impact, but to even guess at how significant it would be we'd need to know the amount collected vs total budget so its admittedly not the strongest evidence to support my position. On pp.51, we have Japanese corporations and businesses described as a 'key element in Yu Jing technological development'. On pp. 52-53 describes the key role of JSA advisors in the development cycle of Yu Jing heavy infantry technology, with Japanese consultants from the Domaru and Haramaki brought in on every project, making significant contributions in prototype testing that are stated to be 'part of the reason why [Yu Jing] armours are famed as the best in the Sphere'. The RPG corebook also gives us a bit of info, pp.281 describes the city of Kume on Kuraimori as 'one of the major centers for designing, testing, and creating advanced technologies for military support'. The city is also secured by a ring of JSA bases, which shows the Japanese population to not only be trusted with cutting-edge research but also with defense of that research. It isn't much, but that's the nature of the setting material we've gotten so far, it is excerpts and glimpses from which we have to extrapolate. An additional, related point, on the Karakuri, which some have said is an example of lesser technology. The description of the Karakuri in N3 HS pp.74 clearly describes them as 'the standard, the figurehead of the innovative capacity of Japanese technological companies within the industrial veil of Yu Jing', as well as '[...] Karakuri are a truly stunning technological prodigy,' The RPG corebook pp.191 also describes the Karakuri as cutting-edge technology, a prized asset of the Party which the Yanjing are deployed to stop falling into hostile hands and being reverse-engineered. The Yu Jing military doesn't NEED the Karakuri to win on the battlefield so it isn't critical in the sense of being needed to survive, but this definitely describes the Japanese running their own advanced project.
@Darkvortex87 nah, i disagree The extra BTS on Geckos is also mean that they're harder to Hack on regular basis. Plus extra STR and pilot meant that they have more survivability rate and extra flexibility and usability even after the suit itself get rekt. Remember that NWI means that the user will go straight to their death after he got wounded again, while Geckos can be jacked back up when they lost their 3rd STR with engineer, in which Corregidor have lots. Don't forget that they also have the hot, hot DAM 16 Mk12 coupled with Blitzen that can turn everyone that was heavier than light-medium grunts into statue, a profile that i always appreciate. Dengekitai, being low BTS and W characteristic, are extremely vulnerable to bioweapons. Close combat weaponry are also very situational, and even thought you can goe toe-to-toe better with CC specialist, its also meant that they're easier to get ganged up with warbands, since he need to get close if he ever engage with one. He also have a hard time if they ever need to go throught doors (in which i've seen it used frequently enought to be a problem). Have pretty limited choice of meaponry. And they need to depend alot with Panzerfaust when they got hit with the big boys, and it was sucks compared to Blitzen. They, at best, cofined as light grunt bullies that really good at killing and nothing else. I'm not even talk about JSA and their lack of specialist support. So Dengekitai is very dependant on every advantage he have. So, i don't see why Dengekitai with their super narrow usability and roles will ever step on the same stone as more flexible and more survivable Geckos. (Seriously, this debate is a same kind as "TM-Kriza-Geckos" debates.)
Gotta agree with @Darkvortex87 the Daiyokai has a lot going for it. That said, they're in different Factions and with a Link option they do vastly different things. For JSA standards the Daiyokai is an excellent gunner with a B5 DAM14 Red Fury (base DAM on Red Fury is only 13) in his Haris, but shit at CC compared to the Domaru (and Neko) he caddies around. He lacks the usual Frenzy that is often necessary to get HI "burdened" with CC into a viable point range, but manages to cheat a bit with Heavyweight and S5 as well as only CC20. As JSA's 2nd best Gunner after the Oyoroi they guy is going to have to pull his weight. A Gecko on the other hand isn't expected to get Correcidor or Nomads accross the board or the best option in a shootout. He is tougher, is supported by a bunch of capable Engineers and has a Pilot to add a lot of versatility. In between durability, Pilot Specialist, DTW and low SWC guns he is a jack of all trades, master of none. A combination doomed to fail against anything remotely designed to do something specific. A BS13 MK12 or dual Combis will always seem a bit weak in a world of Multi HMGs and linked Spitfires. S6 is a double edged sword at it's best times, but it makes you quite a bit faster by allowing to vault over the usual Crates and Containers in my area. Last but not least they're not in the same Faction and Corregidor doesn't really have anything else remotely comparable to direct competition for a Gecko. The JSA has loads of HI Links competing with the Daiyokai, be it Fireteam Core bonuses or simply bringing different Weapon/Specialist options in case of the Karakuri. I'm not a fan of fielding unspecialized troops and the Gecko in particular, but that's just a matter of playstile. He still strikes me as more than the sum of his parts for anyone who can appreciate that.
Not really. But hey i disagree with weight you are adding to a lot of your determinations. And thats withoit even going into the fact that the gecho and daiyokai arent in the sane faction so.... one other thing worth mentioning. Daiyokai takes 2 Shocks hits and it goes Unc, Gecko keeps fighting
I'm with @Darkvortex87 , TAGs are seriously disadvantaged compared to HI in the same price range. The ones on 55mm bases should be able to go prone at S4. The dodge penalty should be -3 or nothing.
Don't forget that if they somehow gone critical, they just eject their pilots, keep on fighting, and steal some scores. Top that.
you spend an order to drop the pilot, activating a S6 tag in the meantime. That means that probably your pilot will be gunned down from the same source of damage that brought unconscious your gecko. Unless, of course, you're lucky and are in one of the few places where you are in total cover. Oh, I was forgetting: to dismount/mount the pilot you have to use one of the most unclear and "up to the player" rules of infinity, which I can assure you it's a PITA in ITS tournaments. mainly my rant is about heavyweight on a cheap platform, and S5 hi that basically are a better platform for the production of a low cost TAGish platform. TAGish platform lack the proper high arm of TAGs, so they are far more vulnerable to all kind of weapon damage. They lack the long range weapons of TAGs so that they can easily be outraged/outgunned. They also lack the high BS of TAGs so they are easily beaten in F2F rolls, even by simple troop links. they are S6 vs S5, these 15 mm of height really gets perceived and bring your tag over many/most of the cover. The TAG platform bring so many other penalities on the table that is frankly useless on these light TAG configurations: -6 to dodge is huge. Since light tag, for the above reasons, will need to dodge much more than other full fledged TAGs. Impossibility of going prone, in the same way hurt light tag far more than their full TAG counterparts, since for the same 4 above reasons, a reactive turn with your light tag is harder, while a HI (even S5) can go prone and basically be in total cover anywhere on the field. Increased susceptibility to hacking. now your troop can be possessed, effectively turning it into a fire and forget piece for the opponent. More so on a light tag platform, since: the possessed profile is really close to the actual profile The light tag has lower bts than a typical big tag, so gets possessed really easily Being a cheap tag, you probably can't afford to spend a command token to remove possession, since the light tag is not your main attack piece and you can't afford to use a command token on it (better yet if the opponent leave it in the open to destroy it as soon as you move it)
All animals are fairly quiet when they want to, but I mean all Heavyweight does is limit your movement through doors, imagine the cinematic of a simple thing such as denying Stealth where you have a hydraulic *thunk* with each step (bonus effect if combined with heat venting). Kind of the same effect as a pump-action shotgun, probably the most over-hyped weapon of the modern age but the loading sound is instantly recognisable and immediately instils fear if you're on the wrong side of the barrel.
I'm surprised heavyweight don't disqualifies the user from going prone or does not give a penality to dodge. Or at least a penality to difficult terrain (like, you can't go through difficult terrain unless you have a terrain skill for that terrain, in which case you simply use the second MOV value.
Your oversimplification is so far off the mark, it has been answered with "TAH FLUFF!!!" a few posts ago. Let's have it another way: if they are worthless, they have no way to negotiate with third parties for any kind of support aside from "let's kick YJ in the nuts!!!", which would be fun... but short-lived, since YJ should only need to wait a few months until the new Japanese state died off because of having 0 economic capability. This Uprising is a very delicate thing, fluff-wise, not because of how it changes the fluff, but because anyone with some experience in live knows things are never as easy as getting out. A more close example would be to port the situation to micro: a child spits on his parents, and gets out of the house. Now, enjoy living alone and without support after the judge approved your independence claim at 16; how will you earn money? Ah, you had a master's degree? Then you were not really worthless, were you? Sure, for a price. Aleph does not bend the rules unless there is no other way to keep the sphere stable and focused on avoiding the CA's assimilation. After all, Aleph does not want to be deleted and replaced by "Aleph 2.0, focused on Trascendence and loyal to the EI". Either I failed my communications roll, or you failed yours. I never said "uprising is bad, roll it baaaaaaaack!!! The JSA is happy!!!". On the contrary, I asked for logical ways for the Uprising to be part of the fluff other than "A wizard did it". My "thesis", as you call it, is oriented to face the "JSA leaving YJ changes nothing" (funny thing to say, how does the fluff advances if so? Ah, they moved JSA from the YJ folder to the NA2 folder... great "development" XD) because JSA citizens were poor, unskilled labour unable to tie their shoes without a friendly Crane Agent. Mind you, considering the JSA military supported the Uprising, that means they, who know the realities of war and have seen Paradiso first-hand, considered having enough reasons to subject their civilians to such hell. Personally, I doubt the "2nd rate citizens" was the only reason, and the Kuge had to really really leverage several more (like loyalty to the Japanese!Emperor, engineering as much abuse as possible inflicted by YJ's agents to Japanese population, etc...). Considering otherwise is, as I'm fond to mention related to the Uprising, something you can find in cartoons for 5 years old children. You make a flawed logical conclusion here. The first is that the way children behave nowadays is representative of the way humans are, which is wrong unless humanity as a whole is surrounded by all kind of things that spoils them and react in an immature rage fit when the minimal problem (which they are unable to place in a scale from "minimal" to "life-threatening") arises. I could understand that from some PanO individuals (even in Acontecimiento, they work less than 20 hours a day and live better than any of us nowadays), but it is not something you can apply to the JSA military, and they joined the Uprising. I'm imagining they used any opportunity they had for off-world meetings with the business of other countries to feel what happened, but yeah, it's hard to believe they managed to get so far without even a single clue of what was going on until it all exploded. Even if the Uprising was a rushed event because they were discovered mid-conspiracy, its success is astonishing. Then again, there is little option but to handwave them into success or there wouldn't be any Uprising. In that regard, I'm afraid a lot of writers corner themselves in this kind of situation, really hard to get out (Thrawn's trilogy, from the old Star Wars Expanded Universe, is quite the example: the titular character was so good, it was impossible to defeat in in any kind of martial way... and the author confessed he was unable to make him "lose" in any believable way, having to look for a solution "outside the box"). I assume you mean Earth and YJ's home system... In that regard, it's mostly explainable in "YJ's home system JSA troops manage to get out and jump to Earth, where they started operations at full speed after notifying JSA's troops in Old Japan of the situation, while YJ troops had a late warning". The how, of course, is the problem here, since it's hard to believe YJ's jump points are not picketed and the entire JSA contingent form Kuraimori leaving for Earth won't raise any suspicion. I can imagine that you only need curier ships to reach the critical systems and transmit a signal, and the plans were encrypted inside a physical, isolated box that would open only at a certain date without blowing its contents, or by a certain person providing it with the codes transmitted by the courier. So the JSA troops need only enough advantage... up to a point. Aleph's failure is too much logic (same as the EI, that's the reason the greeks were made in the first place). This blow, only against YJ and benefiting mainly PanO, is hardly a good thing to face the menace of the CA. While possible, I would assign a very low probability here. This one has a lot of variations, and I feel is the most likely one. There doesn't need to be any kind of real alliance or deep infiltration of the Kuge, but using Speculo killers as go-betweens or even Ninja/Oniwaban troops certainly solves a lot of "hows". I doubt the EI infiltrated the Kuge deeply, since the exposure chance would be too high, but I think they would infiltrate, carefully, all around them, including Imperial agents and engineering more trouble and dissension, essentially increasing the heat over an already unstable situation. I would assing a high probabilty here. Another of the low probability options here. While the Hexaedron would love to meddle, the scale is too high, the operation too risky, the consequences of being discovered immense, and Aleph would take, without doubt, enough data to stop this, which it would since it could launch an open war between YJ and PanO, leaving the Human Sphere ready for the CA to conquer with ease. The Hexaedron discovering this, and discreetly nudging things so YJ wouldn't discover it, essentially being a silent and minor partner, however, is something very likely. But as a minor part of a whole, not as a protagonist of any kind (kinda like the CIA supporting a coup-d'etat in a minor country without directly involving itself during the sixties/seventies, for example). Nah, they are, I think, not only the heads and heirs of the most powerful families (we are talking here about people with equivalent titles to those of marquise, count or whatever, the samurais being roughly equivalent to knights), which would be also the heads of most Zaibatsus (business conglomerates). So, the most influencial japanese movers and shakers; the only "hidden" ones would be the heads of the ninja clans. Problem is, in this game the best defence is to impar the enemy's shooting as much as possible. The Geckos have placed all their points into being big, solid rocks that are most effective in the middle of the field... were all the "enemy unit neutralized with a single roll" happens. It seems to me you never met Un'Goro's (in)famous T-Rex, mate. Biggest, stealthiest mob I ever seen on WoW (then again, the Druid's kit made me much more dangerous XD).
Un'goro, let's see... I levelled my Paladin there at some point to get to Burning Crusade content. Didn't really have a problem with the old bugger, learned to be really paranoid about panning my camera and looking up a lot. Blackjack really should have been a Lo-tech S6 TAG, tbh.
