Good evening everyone! It's been a while since I've seen you all. H5 doesn't raise as many questions as it used to, but sometimes... We're having a debate about combining the Stealth and Cautious Movement rules in N5. This has probably been discussed before, but I couldn't find it. Model A with the Stealth skill starts its order in ZoC of Model B, but out of its LoF(behind nearest corner), then declares Cautious Movement, passes through B's LoF, and moves behind B thus ending the move outside LoF of B. Does Model B receive an ARO? It seems to me that the second point of the Stealth rule quite clearly states that the ARO will be the same as when A entered LoF B. But what if I'm missing something? If the user declares Cautious Movement, Idle, or a Basic Short Skill with the Movement Label, they only grant AROs to enemies that have LoF to them.
My interpretation is Cautious movement works if you start and end out of LoF and ZoC of enemy models and markers. Stealth allows you to cautious move in ZoC as long as you're out of LoF. As long as you start and end the cautious move out of LoF you should be ok?
You need to pair this rule with "CAUTIOUS MOVEMENT". Cautious Movement normally requires staying outside the enemy's LOF & ZOC. Stealth allows all skills listed under it to "grant AROs to enemies that have LoF to them." This means the CAUTIOUS MOVEMENT for generating an ARO changes from LOF & ZOC to strictly LOF. Consequently, a unit with Stealth using Cautious Movement only needs to avoid the enemy's LoF, without needing to worry about ZOC.
Yeah I am also curious how this should be handled as which of the the stealth rule and cautious movement rule should take precedence.
From a design intent perspective, "Stealth" takes priority over "Cautious Movement" This sentence also indirectly supports this, because if having Stealth still triggered an ARO due to line of fire during Cautious Movement, there would be no need to write this rule at all. The principle behind Stealth is actually quite simple: when using Move/Cautious Movement, you do not trigger an ARO due to being within the enemy’s ZOC.
Yes, we have a general rule for Cautious Movement, and there’s also it's specific case for when CM used together with Stealth. My argument is that we should use the specific case, since it’s literally designed for this situation. My opponents insist that the Cautious Movement says "no ARO", and I’ll quote them: “Everyone plays like that anyway.” I’ve run out of reasonable arguments, so now I’m left to look for an authoritative opinions here.
Simply put, Cautious Movement originally requires checking LOF and ZOC at both the start and end. But because of Stealth, you only need to check LOF. This is because Cautious Movement itself turns the check into only examining the starting point and ending point of the movement. The movement process itself does not trigger AROs.
You mean that i'm wrong and model A in this case can move right under the nose of B and don't get ARO?
But in the situation depicted above, A moves through the LoF of B, so B would get an ARO, right? P.S: Nevermind (but note it must be outside LoF and ZoC of all enemy models)
Just to clarify: for cautious move, as long as you start and end out of LoF and ZoC of enemy models/markers, it doesn't matter if they gain LoF during the movement. This is so you can clear gaps without being seen. Combined with stealth, you only check LoF at the start and end, and ignore any LoF during the move, even in ZoC. Correct? Edit: in the example, model B does not get LoF because model A cautious moved out of LoF at the start and end of the move. The second point of the stealth rule does not apply because no LoF is gained.
