No shit they did! The only limiting factor for Riksha is the AVA otherwise I really don't see why one should get Dakini. Only the Red fury variant is out of price range... so what makes the price of Riksha (or Dakini depending on point of view)? Because a Combi Riksha is FO (specialist) which is a big deal, and costs 5pts more than a Dakini specialist with terrain bonus, ECM and dodge. This is already a pivotal aspect because Dakini are/were/should be the backbone... and yet you're telling me that with a minor cosmetic touches we can get away with murder... and yet of all the units you get Riksha that has similarities in the concept unit (a shooty unit in a hacking powerhouse by background... do you see the clash?). In other words OSS doesn't do what it's supposed to because there are many units that belong elsewhere. Sure you need the rifles, but for a counterintelligence/hacking faction there is a lot of shooty faction in it... Still I believe that a Boarding shotgun and a Red fury Dakini profiles could already make a small difference (AMR would be the next addition at least). Mind you: far far away from being the whole story of the faction...
They are the "line troops" thats what makes them comparable. But Dakinis are better. If someone will not spend their SWC on weapons for Fusis (they are still decent shooters with BS13 if you take 4) or Zhanshis (at least all are available), they will be happy to have a Dakini HMG or Sniper that is buffable and can go to 12 + Range = 15 while defended by mimitism and easy repairable. The price comparsion made by @VonKrolok makes me wonder if Dakinis are priced correctly ... but they still have the long range "i want out of my DZ weapons or better defense with MSR. The Riksha RF is 3 pts and 0.5 SWC over the Dakinis HMG (a HMG about 8 pts iIRC). Okay take 2 pts of the Dakini for the weapon you are still at 6 pts. for ARM 3, ECM and TT. The 2" dodge seems to be there to make them not too cheap ;-) But I still see Dakinis on the table. I rareley go out without them (you have all three FT options). In OSS for example you choices for HMG are: Marut, Yadu, MK4 and the Zayin. Dakini can shoot on 15, get 5 dice and are the cheapest option.
Yes @archon very well put. The comparison with Riksha screams that Dakini should be cheaper still (or with a bit more skills). It's really beyond me though: people cried 1000 tears for the disappearance of the PanO sectorials and they got them back (with a complete redesign of Acontecimento) and here we are talking about "what's due" and people say Aleph doesn't need it. Ok, you want to play with less toys, you're free to do so even if the roster includes an additional sectorial and more minis for the existing branches. Still if a lot of people say "we don't need it" we are just not gonna get it which affects more people than the single person choosing not play with new stuff. On the other hand if we get a sectorial we are due, it is an advantage even for those that don't think we should have one more. In other words: you're thinking negatively? Don't talk! You're ruining your options too (and that applies to other factions as well, your game is not gonna be reacher, the contrary!). Then there is the fact of people coming to Aleph forum and admitting they know nothing of Aleph while saying Aleph doesn't need [put whatever]. Have you found a post by me on PanO forum saying they don't need any more sectorials? No, because a more varied opposition is good for my game too. I started playing Infinity from N3, human sphere to be precise. Ever since, Aleph had brand-new concepts that can be counted on the finger of 2 hands to be generous plus OSS and lost some iconic pieces (which I wasn't relying on so I feel no lack, but that doesn't mean that Aleph could not do with them back). Meanwhile Tohaa was scrapped (we all know why), Nomad got Tunguska, PanO got Winter and Kestrel, Haqq got Hassassin and Rama, JSA was made from scratch, YuJing got white banner and CA took the lion's portion (Onix, Morat and Next Wave). 2 editions with Code One in between (was born and died). In N3 the standard was 1 vanilla and 1 sectorial... now it's 1 vanilla and 3 sectorials at least. The disparity is evident especially considering that N5 was the streamlined version that saw the exponential growth of new equipment with new rules (wild parrots, discoballers...). It's starting to sound more and more like the speech of Canada's Prime Minister in Davos: we made the rules so we could break them whenever we needed to for us and our friends, the rest of the world can go to hell and back. I started playing infinity because I wanted to play a specific faction and in N3 I had the possibility to do so. Now this possibility is shrinking down quite dramatically and I am only kept in this situation by the extent of enjoyment I can get from it... which is shrinking with the possibility for me to play what I like... fair enough, I'll save money and maybe, like a smoker that quits, I can buy myself a Ferrari with the money I save...
That's patently false. Since the original Human Sphere in N2, most armies had 2 sectorials each, in addition to a vanilla. Notable exceptions were PanOceania (3 sectorials - MO, ASA & NCA) and Aleph (which was introduced in N2 HS, and had no sectorials at that point). Also, JSA wasn't made from scratch in N5 - it did exist in N2HS as Japanese Sectorial Army, a YJ sectorial (side to side with Imperial Service). A good portion of its units do form Oban nowadays. Then, we got Campaign:Paradiso, which introduced the Steel Phalanx as Aleph's 1st (and for a long time, sole) sectorial, as well as Tohaa. So, that is the state of things at the end of N2. N3 had seen - IIRC - the reduction of YJ to one sectorial, with the Uprising book (and yes, I'll keep saying it was not well-handled by the CB. Despite writing for the secession being on the wall since N1). But still, it doesn't make "1 vanilla + 1 sectorial" a standard for N3.
No faction is *due* any sectorials. Speaking for myself, I am against adding new sectorials to the game in general, until the balancing issues with existing sectorials get resolved. Additionally, more sectorials mean less model release slots for any of them. Granted, if anyone should get a next sectorial it might be Aleph, because it wouldn't cause them problems. I think that their lineups for both SP and OSS are mostly complete, so they might get something new. But there's also difference between wanting more toys to play with (which I totally understand) and arguing that the faction balance is impacted negatively by the lack of said toys (which I disagree with). The latter is particularly true since CB pared down vanilla factions, so that those with more sectorials aren't getting advantage over those with less.
Care to elaborate? You know how I see it. We can have 10 matches in which you are allowed only 1 list and I come every time with a different faction. You don't get the chance to learn before I come with a new one knowing exactly what you field... is that balanced? I have the suspicion that somewhere around game 3 or 4 you'll get tabled (figuratively depending on mission). Ever more so when there is a very limited choice of Lt (might as well be an open info). The second sentence was probably an intention in the dreams of Bostria (we already know the weight of his words...): vPanO has access to Fusiliers (available in 4 sectorials), Helot Militia which is also Varuna, Fennecs which are Kestrel, Bolts which are in Neoterra... vPanO is the living proof that the vanilla was not pared down to specific troops (say HQ) so that Aleph that has Dakini e Thorakitai only gets Dakini in vAleph because with just 2 sectorials is penalised (your words... contradicting the first sentence)... because reasons (believe you me I don't cry over Thorakitai). This is just limited to line troops because at the end of the day they are the bread and butter: you need them for orders, they are generally core teams of 5 (scept Thorakitai) and they are necessary chaff with an occasional spec op that can come in handy.
I partially agree with the first part, Aleph could use more variety and, given their short Lt bench, more powerful Lt's. But they're not that restricted to be unable to surprise opponent as to what your list will be. The second part of the argument I don't get. What difference does it make if Fusiliers are in multiple sectorials, and Dakinis are in one? What matters is how many options any given army has and if those options allow it to function properly. From my perspective, and I was an Aleph player before, Aleph might use more goodies, but it's perfectly usable right now. Again, it might use a new sectorial and I hope that whetever new one comes out next it'll be for them.
That is the point you said you didn't get: it's not that Fusiliers are in all sectorials, it's that vPanO has ALL the line troopers of ALL the sectorials when vanilla faction was meant to be restricted in the choices. Sure vanilla can't get 5-men core (except in reinforcements for 4 Bolts + 1), but it's hardly a problem with that kind of choice. Brought to Aleph: vAleph doesn't have Thorakitai. My first game with a friend of mine (OSS w/ 15 orders) I had a 5-Dakini team with remdrive and I won with Dakini doing a lot of heavy weight. I decided not to change list for the second game and he understood that the team was the linchpin... after turn 1 there were 2 Dakini left. Was it the perfect list? Most definitely not (seeing as it is that JSA hinges on Hatamoto), but it just goes to show that without choices the strategy becomes evident. Having another trooper choice it would have made a difference. Similarly, on turned-tables, I can focus on Hatamoto and that already cripples a JSA. Which puts JSA in a similar condition to Aleph. Regardless everything: you changed position from "no way a new sectorial" to "it might need one"... because it so obvious that it does...
I also agree that Aleph needs some love, but I don’t think they as bad off as some others. As far as rules go, Shavasti could also use a bit more of something. All the NA2 factions are difficult to play at best. We all know as far as figures go, Haqqislam has had the least number of new figures for years and QK can still use some adjustments even though they are not horrible right now either. I also highly doubt they would create a new sectoral for anyone this year. Or at least this time of year. Next Wave just came out a few months ago. Next year I can see it happening. But we could be surprised in the Fall. Right now, I really don’t want anyone getting a new sectoral. There’s plenty as it is. I would have said O12 before but vO12 is almost its’ own sectoral since N5. If anything, I’d like to see Starmada get something new.
And I disagree, it's not obvious and it does not need one. It might use one, and what I agree with that some more SP troops could make it into vAleph. As for PanO, you could just as well make an argument that it's so restricted with its choices, having to use the same line troop in most of its sectorials. The bigger problem with vPanO is the overrepresentation of Kestrel, for obvious reason.
Got to agree on Kestrel. They need to tone them down a bit. I’m still having trouble with the damn Red Eye if they go first.
Shasvasti should have been done instead of Next Wave... sorry, better luck next time and this isn't a CA forum! As for Haqq (for which this isn't a Haqq forum either!) They had SEVERAL new just now with the VH... a thing that Aleph doesn't have btw. Let me recap for you: you said that vanilla factions were "pared down" to compensate for the (ridiculous?) amount of sectorials some factions have over others. PARED-DOWN meaning: 1. reduced, especially by a large amount So vPanO was cut down by a large amount especially in the line troopers section? Not by any extent whatsoever. Now your argument was used to validate the fact that Aleph doesn't need a new sectorial. Being that the premise is false, the conclusion doesn't stand up on its own and we are left with the obvious which is the contrary of your conclusion (proof by contradiction).
Let's see. Counting for N5, i.e. since fall of 2024. Haqq got one new model (Zeybek) in December 2025, and limited edition (as in, bonus with the Kestrel/Sihndenbutai bundle, not available separately) Korsan. There were four more Haqq releases - Bahram Action Pack, Ramah Expansion Alpha, Bahram Expansion Beta nad Mukhtar, which are purely repacks of existing miniatures. Aleph got one new release (K2 Auxiliars) in January 2026, a resculpted Posthumans box (December '24) and a Steel Phalanx Army Pack (a repack). Apparently you do count repacks of pre-existing stuff as new releases. In that category, indeed, Haqq did better than Aleph (4 vs. 1). I do not. In terms of new stuff, Haqq got one regular release (Zeybek) and one expensive-to-get LE Korsan. Aleph got one new release (K2s) and one resculpt.
The reason why Pan O has two flavours of line troops in vanilla is obvious: Fennecs are in Kestrel and new. They are not realy needed and at this time Acon was buried they replace the regulars equipment wise. But your argument regarding Aleph without Thoras in vanilla is legit because Nomads and JSA also have two flavours of line troops and I did not look in Ariadna which has the most flavours of line troopers in general. If people take them is on another page. Nomad Moderators in vanilla exist for LT profile only. €dith: Nomads have all three lines which give them options but … I doubt it will be used much. The presence of Bolts for exemple in Pan O vanilla seems to be mainly because at the start of N5 three sectorials went down the drain.
Obviously it's not limited to line troopers and YOU WISH it was 2... all line troopers from all sectorials are in vPanO: Fusiliers Helot Militia Bolts Fennecs Magistrates (they cost max 24 and have 6 profiles... sure they are spec ops troopers [something Aleph doesn't have...] but the profile and price make them like Bolts) 4 flavours of TAG, REMs are pretty much always the same (drummers just 'cuz...) HI from 4 sectorials MI are a bit more limited, but they keep all Kestrel anyway SK from all sectorials although just 3 in total (multiple presence) By the same token vAleph should have everything from both sectorials and still missing stuff (hence another sectorial because Aleph doesn't have 5 flavors of troopers, but with 3 it could go on par with other factions; I think YuJing is the one that is more balanced having a 4 trooper total including veterans and they don't play across in vYuJing)
I do not wish. I see it is. Helots, Bolts etc. are not line troops. Yu Jing for example miss Celestial Guards and when it got to line troops Shang Ji and Zuyong are line troops but I would´t count HI. All Vanillas were strongly reduced, I still think Pan Os has more because of Kestrel.
I've counted number of options in vanilla factions yesterday, and PanO is in no way ahead of the pack. Aleph is at 40, while other factions sit somewhere between 50-55. PanO is at 51 if I recall. Again, the issue with vPanO is that it's composed in large part of Kestrel units, while other sectorials are underrepresented, not that it has any kind of larger variety and choice than other vanilla factions. I'd happily see Blinks getting replaced by Hexas, Magistrates by Black Friars, Banshee by Akalis, and Hetkari by Boygs. As for the Line Troops - this whole classification is completely meaningless, and whether those specific troops are in vanilla factions or not doesn't matter at all; what matters is the amount of options any army - vanilla or sectorial - has, and if it's sufficient for it to function. And again, Aleph functions just fine, but it could use more variety, while Helots or Bolts being in vPanO doesn't give them any kind of advantage aside from being useful units. The above option count is why I agree that vAleph could get expanded, include more SP troops. The issue with Aleph is that they don't have "spare" units to include in vanilla - everything is either in SP or OSS. Compare with O12, another faction with two sectorials, but with a number of troops that were the first to be released, but ended up without their sectorial - Gamma, Omega, Delta, Epsilon, etc. (And don't get me started on Torchlight, this is the most unnecessary and unfitting the vibe sectorial in the game). That's a large part of why I believed from the get go that if anyone should get a new sectorial, it should be Aleph.
Admittedly I didn't set the stage for "what is a line trooper". It isn't what is written top left of the profile. I took specifically LI/MI with a top price of 24. Why? Because Thorakitai are MI for example, also Garrison troop when there isn't a force organization chart a la certain Hammer we all know, doesn't have much of a meaning. To be more precise the typical, run of the mill, cheerleader is generally BS: 11-12, 1 to 3 skills, 6 to 12 loadout options and an ARM of 0-3. Granted that Bolts are a bit better than that, but then I'd argue that they are too cheap considering that Thorakitai have a 23/1.5 (Feuerbach) for no skills. Similarly priced Bolt has drop bears, markmanship, immu shock, TT and warhorse (Missile launcher)... there is something a little bit fishy here! Either the points are wrong or... Shall we check SK? Let's! The big differences are only NWI and NCO (plus stats BS+1, BTS+3, PH-1 and WIP-1)... almost 10pts difference? I can accept that but please give Dasyu a profile REALLY worth 10pts more. They do have slightly different roles, but a sniper with BS12 is not exactly something I'd write home about... rather give it a BS15 and let's call it even (not quite 10pts, but it gets a step closer). Obviously these differences are not solved by another sectorial (thing I won't let go so easily, I think there should be considering age of the faction vs. O12 and I think it's due for other reasons including more/different toys that when they come up are generally the focus...) but they DO need addressing because when they say "Aleph is elite" this is the living proof that Aleph ain't elite and not even CLOSE! Not to mention that Dasyus have miniatures dating back to before N3. Why don't we all start looking into pairings like these?
Yes I know. And you knew I was using them as an example vs. Aleph. You need to calm down and not get frustrated by this. I've been there and it's not worth it. Aleph will have it's day. But you need to be prepared that it's not soon. I'm with you man. I want Aleph to be good and want a new sectoral too. I'm just trying to say Aleph is not as bad as you think it is and it's not great. But it will come back. If it's not the next one for a new sectoral I'll be very surprised and disappointed. Here's numbers of NEW figures for the last 6 years. Aleph is near but the bottom but nothing in comparison to Haqq. Yu Jing, who recently just got a new refresh of ISS, has only 5 more than Aleph. Also, CA is already on its way to keep being the top because of Next Wave. 2020-2025 Total new figures per faction. Combined Army: 92 Nomads: 89 O-12: 80 PanO: 81 Yu Jing: 64 Ariadna: 60 Aleph: 59 NA2: 52 Haqqislam: 37 JSA: 35 Unfortunately I don't have older numbers to dive down into by sectoral.
