I have a need to state again how much I hate the Red Eye. It’s not fun to play against at all. Whose idea was it to give it Sensor? It pretty much just moves up, uses Sensor, then kills everything it finds. With either the Spitfire or a f-ing Continuous Damage Grenade! Even doing spec fire it can kill anything (it killed my Shang Ji HMG with Spec Fire). Then also the speed and maneuverability to just avoid any MSV. Even if I did hit it (once) it just pings off the Armor 6. They need to balance the ARM vs. Movement. If It’s going to be that high of ARM, take away some speed and no bonus to super jump. If it goes first it just Rambo's through whole armies. The other flyers are just as bad. Except for Feiquan, they all have weapons that can kill just about anything.
IDK - I did not face a flyer so far. My meta is small. A lot of people still not like the flyers or think that they are too expensive (money wise). I theory you hit the Red Eye on a -3 in good weapon range. It will save a HMG round on a 11. So Shang should hit it on 10 with 5 dice vs one on 14. In active mode. The Red Eye in active shoots similar to a Uhlan with 4 dice on 14 vs - say a HI ARO with BS13 two on 10 - not the best deal. So you have to go for it in active, use hacking and lots of E/M ammo and cover yourself in mines. Not an easy prey indeed. I think its little bit too cheap and yes Sensor is the cherry on top. Red Eye for 37 / 38 pts seems good deal for ARM/BTS 6 and BS14 Firebat is 35/36 with ARM 4/BTS 6 but with low burst long range weapons and higher burst in close/mid range - with NCO and +1 SD Feiquan is under 30 (27/28) but has halve the ARM/BTS of the Red Eye is more prone to hacking - long range only for ARO duty, while the EM Variant could be devasting vs other anything that is vulnerable to EM. Sensor. Go Pod has only mim-3 with ARM2 (but BS-3) für 33/32 ond the Bot gimmick. Zydek has no mim at all, instead feauters albedo -6 witch is very, very situational. It also have higher ARM and BS-3 and very good weapon AP-Spitfire. Haytem then feauters MSB1 with a hot Red Fury for 33 pts. or the CQB variant with HSG B3 for 29. CA brings Plasma and mine dispensers with ARM 4 BTS 6 in mid range and some low burst long range stuff. All have something unique but Pan O is pure Firepower with best protection.
What they do here is move in, kill stuff, move back so you can’t see them in your active turn. It’s so fast it can get all the back to its own DZ with a single order. All but the Feiquan can stay outside of 16” and be in their +3 range while their targets are 0 to -3 range. The FQ needs to get within 16” to be effective but that means the enemy is also in +3 and reduces the mim advantage. Red Eye needs MSV2 with AP ammo. That’s only the Haidao in vYJ and Bao in ISS. The best WB has is MSV1 with Ye Mao Missile, Hundun and Multi-marksman. For the ones with Mim-3 and BS -3 you need MSV, Warhorse, and AP. We have nothing. All of them it can just move in a way to avoid our guns.
Have you actually tried the feiquan yet? Try it, and do the same thing to your pano opponent. You literally just told us how to use it going 1st, including sensor! Try this if you're going 2nd: reserve the FQ with pitcher as last drop, place it on a building or wherever can see and ARO the Redeye. When they bring it up to shoot, aro with a pitcher +1sd near the redeye. Take your chances with the saves, then hack the shit out the Redeye when it actives again. That profile also has glue, and flash pulse +1sd in the same range band he wants to be in with spittie. Thats not a fight it really wants to take. After looking at the FQ again, I think you're sleeping on it for some reason.
Yes I missed with both pitchers even with SD. then when trying to use the stupid short ranged e-carbine, i was in -3 range while they were +3. It sucked. big time. ARM3 with no cover was crap. It went down to a spitfire. I'm not asking about how to use it. I'm asking about how to get rid of the good ones. I'm not afraid of a FQ. Goes down like nothing.
I might be missing something, but for WB this feels like the job for AP Spitfire Yeo Mao or MMR Lei Gong. They feel like dedicated anti-flyer pieces with MSV1 and superjump. With their speed using superjump (6-4 Yeo Mao, 9-2 Lei Gong), they should be able to close in within 24" and shoot the S7 red eye out of the sky on a flat BS 13. Specifically, a Yeo Mao duo of AP Spitfire and FO/Engineer can hunt the flyer ( and do over half the classifieds: Linked Yeo Mao AP Spitfire versus Redeye (Dodging): Active (0.93 wounds / order): Wins F2F: 68.4% Causes 1+ wounds: 54.9%, Causes 2+ wounds: 27.3%, Causes 3+ wounds: 9.0% Failure: No wounds caused: 45.1% (13.5% chance active player causes no wounds) (25.7% chance reactive player causes no wounds) Reactive (0.00 wounds / order): Wins F2F: 25.7% The odds are much better if the Redeye decides to shoot back instead of dodging: Active (1.42 wounds / order): Wins F2F: 87.4% Causes 1+ wounds: 74.4%, Causes 2+ wounds: 44.2%, Causes 3+ wounds: 18.0% Failure: No wounds caused: 19.3% (13.0% chance active player causes no wounds) (2.7% chance reactive player causes no wounds) Reactive (0.08 wounds / order): Wins F2F: 9.1% Causes 1+ wounds: 6.4%, Causes 2+ wounds: 1.4%
I know. Its interesting because when I saw the title of the post I assumed(you know what they say about that) that this was "hey gang how do we deal with flyes?" A very useful subject right now in my opinion. Instead, or rather as normal, you're just complaining and telling us what you wish CB will do. So what are you asking for, from the forum with a shit post like this? It sure doesn't seem like you want to talk about fliers or solutions on the field.
I wanted help and ideas on how to deal with them with Yu Jing. Of which you have not offered but call me a shit-poster. Yes I'm incredibly frustrated with them and probably shouldn't have made it sound like that. I've been on the bad side of Red Eye several times now, the Go Pod, and I know soon the Skyhound is coming for me. If i'm going second there seems to be few ways to deal with them. I've had some good ARO pieces like Bao, Yan Huo, and more. They just avoid them with their mobility and speed. I've had minelayers and the mines, and troop are sensored and shot. The most i've been able to do is E/Marat with a sensored Vanguard. A Ninja was also sensored at the same time. (it was incredibly lucky he got both of them). I immobilized it but with one order he had a Firefly gizmoed it back. Then he went back to murdering the Vanguard and Ninja he had found. Vanguard with Griffin, Ninja with Red Eye. Thank you. I'll definitely be taking the Ye Mao when I play WB. Unfortunately I was doing vYJ in my last game. But now I'll be looking into Lei Gong too. It's too bad to get the better gun you loose the specialist. I was also thinking the YM missile launcher. I've used it before and it was great but that was not against a flyer. There's also the Sulyong with MSV1 and MMR. He can be in a vanilla haris with Zuyong. But that's usually where I put my Dokkaebi.
Also for dealing with flyers, I would also look at the options that WB and Yujing have for board control, especially hacking. You can use Gudans, Guilangs, and your variety of pitcher models to limit where the flyers can go. Flyers hate hacking networks. Yujing and WB is one of the few factions that can have a turn zero midfield hacking capability with Guilangs and Sulsa Warriors, if so desired.
I've learned to never let Kestrel have first turn if I win Lt roll. In my last game, Major Lunah on active turn using surprise attack with triangulated fire actually put a wound into the Red Eye. Then Su Jian finished it off. I've also found that E/M templates work great, and if the Red Eye has to sensor the E/M mine and shoot it, it will cost at least another order. If the mine is placed well, the Red Eye either avoids it (area denial), or maneuver to shoot it at distance (possibly triggering other AROs). Breaker ammo is also AP. Yu Jing has plenty of those. And as mentioned before, Red Eye hates repeater network, which is sadly lacking in ISS but very doable in VYJ. If you use Jinyao try dropping it behind the flyer and deploy a repeater. Flyers are a new thing, so there's always a learning curve. That said, even my Kestrel opponent admits that the Red Eye is way under costed for what it can do. The order efficiency is insane. Edit: I think this is correct (please double check if I'm wrong!): re-reading the rules for Gizmokit, it seems to only remove wounds to cancel unconscious state, but cannot remove Imm-B or isolated states. To remove Imm-B or isolated state requires an engineer to be in silhouette contact and make a roll, which can't happen for flyers. Your opponent shouldn't have used the Firefly's Gizmokit on the Red Eye to save it from states caused by E/M.
It's kind of annoying that I keep getting caught off guard by some of these special rules that cancel other rules. Infinity has a ton of those!
Yep. That's infinity! A running joke is no one has ever played an Infinity game where they actually played all the rules correctly. If it makes you feel better, Tech recovery is a new rule released in the October 2025 update to boost flyers.
A needless new rule IMO... just cancelling the Aerial skill when entering any IMM or Null state woult be absolutely sufficient and wouldn't require a new rule to iron out previous oversights (or lack of listening to the testers?).
They really do need to slim down some rules again. It's better and worse that it was. Better for not having nested skills like they used to, worse for each soldier having a role playing game characters worth of skills.
