https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...eSY8KeyigA/edit?gid=1267351678#gid=1267351678 How I’m Handling the Stats Only counting events with 15+ players. Looking at just the top 20% of players (always rounded down — that’s also why I set the 15-player minimum). If “Unknown” shows up in that top 20%, the whole event gets tossed out Only data from after the April update (Super Jump change) is included in the statistics. The goal here is to highlight which Sectorals are actually competitive. Not winning a tournament doesn’t automatically mean a Sectoral is weak. And cutting “Unknown” keeps the data consistent and the results clean. Assuming the balance baseline is 1, the red-marked Sectorals would be at 1.8, while the gray-shaded ones would be at 0.6 (meaning the gap between gray and red is three times or more). The statistical sample is only 21 games, which may not be enough, but it still reveals some trends. Here are my thoughts: N5 Changes (Outline) 1. CC Adjustments The buffs to MA3–5, along with changes to NBW and Berserk, make units with high MA much harder to counter once they reach close combat—especially those with Para (-6). Facing either high-MA or NBW units now feels much weaker. Units with only NBW tend to lose FTF rolls against high-MA opponents. After the Berserk rework, cheap Berserk units can no longer trade their lives with high-MA monsters. Instead, high-MA units that also have Berserk became even stronger. 2. Pitcher Adjustments Due to Fireteam changes, you can’t throw two Repeaters in one Order anymore. Range is now flat within 24", but with FT’s +1 SD, Pitcher carriers inside a Fireteam can reach nearly to the opponent’s DZ right from deployment (32"). But since there’s no +3 bonus in the 8–16" band anymore, using Pitchers outside a Fireteam is now more of a gamble. 3. Introduction of No Cover and Limited Cover The biggest effect is on Impetuous units—they can no longer cancel their drawback by joining an FT. Some units that used to be reliable ARO pieces are now much weaker. 4. Fireteam Changes Duo is extremely good, 5-man Cores are too weak, and Sixth Sense is harder to obtain. The shift from +1B to +1 SD weakens many defensive weapons and reduces peak damage efficiency. 5. Smoke Changes The +3 bonus at 8" is gone, making factions that rely on Smoke less efficient. 6. Addition of Discoball Eclipse is now common, and compared to Smoke it even gets a +3 at 8–16". 7. Albedo Changes & Spread This makes MSV and MMS easier to counter. 8. Super Jump Changes Units with Super Jump now have very high mobility efficiency. 9. Reduction of DTW Weapons Trading up with cheap DTWs is harder, reducing aggressive tools overall. 10. Baggage Changes Certain refillable ARO weapons became more effective. 11. Warhorse & BS Attack (-3) Adjustments BS Attack (-3) can now be countered by Warhorse, but access and usefulness vary by Sectoral. Strong Sectorals 1. VCA Undisputed top-tier. They gained many ALEPH units, which actually come with better equipment and weapons inside VCA. At first glance, CA didn’t change much in N5, but in practice the impact is huge: MA changes make Protheion units far scarier and more efficient. Berserk changes make it harder to trade against CA’s CC monsters. Bit & Kiss can’t join FTs and have lower Pitcher odds, but the new range bands let them threaten from even further. The reduction of DTWs means CA’s attackers face fewer attrition losses. Ikadrons remain absurdly good REMs, still way above others but only cost 1 extra point. Daturazi benefit from both MA and Berserk buffs. New ALEPH additions like Teucer and Achilles expand options with no cost disadvantage. Bit & Kiss, despite not joining FTs, are still extremely efficient hackers—basically B2 by themselves. Combined with Ikadrons, Bit can keep throwing out 24" Repeaters into mid-game. Other tweaks like Nourkias gaining Immunity (ARM) also strengthen the roster. CA doesn’t get VH or Discoball in N5, but neither is necessary since they already have Smoke, Eclipse, and White Noise. Overall, VCA keeps its N4 backbone of cheap cheerleaders (Imetron, Ikadron, R-drones) while now fielding even more unpredictable and powerful attack options. Big system-wide changes largely benefit them. 2. Morat Warhorse is widespread among Morats, making BS Attack (-3) units irrelevant to them—this is huge against factions like TB. The increase of E/M Mines and DTWs, plus improved E/Mitters, amplifies Morat advantages. With FTs losing +1B, Zappers often beat Heavy Flamers for ARO. This undermines most factions, but Morats don’t care—their E/M investment still hits hard. They also have the best FT options: tons of Duos, Yaogats benefiting from the changes (now rolling SV roll 6 dice with an MSR vs most factions’ 4). That’s a major edge against 2W units. Daturazi remain excellent. Kaitok’s Flammenspeer with Baggage changes gets even more efficient. Rodoks now have Combat Instinct, boosting hacker defense. Warhorse ignoring Isolated is another huge edge. So while Morats didn’t get flashy new units like VCA, the system-wide changes gave them plenty of buffs. 3. KCF On par with Morats in win rate, currently also a top performer. They received tools PanO always dreamed of: Strategos L1 Parachutist (DZ) The only Doctor reroll in the game They also gained rare gear: Fast Panda (only PanO/Nomads) MULTI Red Fury (only PanO) WildParrot (PanO and O-12 Starmada only) Discoball (finally giving PanO vision-blocking tools) All of this is cheap and efficient, especially on Fennec-Fusiliers. They field both the cheapest Discoball and cheapest Fast Panda in the game. Their command structure is unprecedentedly strong for PanO: first-time access to Strategos, cheap CoC, and even a TAG with LT +1 Order. They retained PanO’s shooting while filling all their old gaps. 4. Bakunin Lots of cheap, effective tools remain strong even after nerfs. Some units even improved: Robin Hook: -3 pts, still 3" Super Jump, now has E/Mitter. Penitent Observants: Continuous Damage added, cheaper cost. Zero Minelayer → Para Mine, which makes stopping enemy attacks easier (something even O-12 lacks). Initiated Observants: -3 to -5 pts. Overall, Bakunin didn’t lose tactical flexibility but actually gained more variety. 5. Hassassin One of only three factions with Mine Layer (2), in this case with E/M Mines (Shujae). Djabel and Fiday were nerfed with IMP-1, but MA buffs make them deadlier in CC. Other units like Farzan (-1 to -4 pts) and Sunduqbut (-2 to -5 pts) got cheaper, allowing more Camo saturation. Shakush HMG now has Continuous Damage. All in all, Hassassin troops received sweeping optimizations. 6. Tunguska Biggest winner from Super Jump rework. Hollow Men are ridiculously efficient: PanO-level ARM, O-12-level BTS, Super Jump, and still under 30 pts. Weak Sectorals Main reasons: Overpriced, underwhelming cheerleaders. E.g., MO’s Coadjutor-Crosiers cost 11 pts, the most expensive PanO line trooper, and only get Religious (useless on line troops). Only one Fugazi allowed. Their baggage bot is mediocre compared to VCA’s Ikadrons. Weak command structure. MO again: no LT option on Crosiers, Knight-Commander is overpriced and eats 0.5 SWC. No cheap CoC either. System-wide rule changes. Ariadna suffers most: nerfs to Smoke, No Cover, Limited Cover, Berserk—all hit them, with no compensation. Lack of tools. Winter Force has decent units but lacks diversity (no Combat Jump, no Parachutist). Overcosted units. Since most factions got point cuts, units with minimal cuts or no new gear fell behind. Example: Holy Sepulchre AP HMG only -3 pts, while Yu Jing’s Yan Hu got new skills like Warhorse + Immunity (ARM). Old exclusive tools are no longer unique. Eclipse is no longer rare (Discoball everywhere). All of YJ's Sectorals have gained access to Pitchers. Even PanO got Strategos L1. JSA,YJ and HB can field a large number of CAMO markers on the table.This dilutes advantages for factions like O-12 and Ariadna. Weak ARO diversity. Morats have Kaitok, Bakunin has tons of options, but Winter Force lacks efficient cheap AROs. Teutonics with ML are no longer good after Limited Cover changes. Personal Wishlist A. Pitcher range bands reverted to N4. Being able to reach the enemy DZ straight from deployment is too safe. Also makes non-FT Pitcher throwers useful again. B. Alternative skill to restore old Berserk trade role. Right now only high-MA units benefit. Split it like Sixth Sense/Combat Instinct. C. More LT-related skills. The following is an example. +1 Unit Cap Infiltration Commander (troops roll PH instead of PH-3) Lieutenant (+1 SD) D. More “new tech” in Human Sphere. To better differentiate high-tech vs low-tech factions. ALEPH’s identity is blurring, and Ariadna needs more unique tools. O-12’s role also needs reevaluation after so many gear overlaps. E. More accurate ITS Sectoral registration. Require uploading Army Codes and more frequent balance updates. Many bad units never get fixed without balance passes.
Pitchers not having bonuses to distance is the best decission, like with grenade launchers, even if i dont like it. But im with you in the other sugestions.
It’s understandable not to want to see bonuses to distance. However, I would prefer that 16–24 inches have a -3 modifier.— what’s your take on that?
Oh, now i get it. To be fair, none of my factions have access to pitchers, so i never used them. It would be nice, but i think with the new fireteams, the old -3 and the new 0 'til 24 inches are very similar. The ideal will be a mix of those two. N4 ranges, but without the +3
Pitchers: I must agree that it’s too easy to put down pitchers. Especially in a fireteam. I think -3 for 16-32 would be good. vCA: I’m really not sure about how CA could be reined in. My first thought though is they shouldn’t have the Dartok, and It should go up a couple points for Morats. Upgrades of Trinity and then Firewall -3 is just too good for the prices. I don’t see a vCA team without them. They at least take the SMG version for a few pts. less. I agree about Ikadrons also being too good for what they do. Ikadrons and Imetrons should be a point more. Achilles: I think the addition of Team Achilles was just wrong. Why make a good an already good force even better? And then weaken what was a middle-par faction? It already had combat monsters. Did it really need more? I’m hoping when Next Wave comes out they are no longer in vCA. Morats: Unfortunately, I think the main problem with Morats is Warhorse. I personally don’t think it should make you immune to Issolation. But they are NOT going to be making fundamental changes to the rules any time soon. It used to be the Morat rule just made it that they ignored LoL and Retreat (confirm?). I think a one- or two-point increase across the board would be good. Individually Warhorse is not bad, but it’s a force-multiplier. It’s more powerful the more have it. Edit: I also think for Morats, they should not be able to make Pretas/Gakis, what essentially are animals, into regular orders. KCF: Yeah they have more good than bad but I’m not sure that they win a lot because they are that good or just popular. So many playing them must skew the results a little. But changes I think should happen are: BCA Magistrates AVA1 instead of 2. Jackals LRL a point more. Yamabushi OR Beasthunter, not both. Fireteams: I’m mostly happy with the way they are now. They were too powerful before and I think anything else would only put them back to that. If I were to change anything I think it would be to flip Level 2 and Level 3. So that you had to have at least 3 key troops to get the +1 SD. I think the +3 to Discover and +1 Dodge is not nearly as good as the special die. I don’t think they should “boost” all other forces to make up the balance because I can see that quickly making things just swing to the other side of the pendulum. But there are a few like Ariadna and MO that need something.
With the exception of what happened to my beloved Vanilla Haqqislam and to a lesser extent, Vanilla Nomads, I am pretty happy with N5 balance. The only change I would make is for Armed Turrets to be disposable 2 to make up for being unloadable. They are a cool concept that just needs some tweaking.
Even when they could be re-loaded, you still only saw about 2 anyway. I don't know anyone that would spend orders to re-load. Also it would still be a problem with factions, like O12, who has multiple troops with turrets. Maybe a little more expensive?
Morat was Veteran L1 (same as modern day Warhorse) plus Religious Troop. It only stacked two existing skills, rather than being a unique skill of its own.
I’m glad you feel the same way. I should point out here that in N4, the Morats were already known as the army that doesn’t go into the Isolated state. It seems like this has been officially designated as one of their traits, so slightly increasing the PTS of some key units might help keep them balanced. The situations caused by flip Level 2 and Level 3 make some ARO pieces ineffective again. Maybe if we swapped them around, Level 2 could instead grant an extra ARO +1SD and Discover+3, while only Level 3 would provide the +1SD in the active turn. This could ease the pressure from the overwhelming number of Camo units in this edition, while also preventing active-turn Duos from becoming too dominant in the game. As for Level 5, I think it should offer some additional effects — right now, nobody really wants to pick it because the cost is just too high. I feel that each level should have its own appeal; otherwise, there’s no point in setting it at 3–5 members — it might as well just be 3–4. That really depends on the scale of each adjustment. If it’s just changes of 1–2 PTS without modifying core stats or skills, then the impact should be acceptable. The key is to have more frequent updates, so that players of weaker factions can regularly have something to look forward to, rather than waiting in despair for the next big edition. I’m also very eager for the addition of new tools. Beyond balance, another consideration is how to introduce factions to new players by explaining their traits and differences. In N5, this has become quite a challenge. In Taiwan, I’ve taught more than ten players, and the difficulty of explaining each Sectoral’s in-game identity varies. I don’t want to just gloss over Ariadna with a single line like “low-tech,” because that only makes new players think they’re weak. Nor do I want to introduce Aleph by saying they’re highly advanced, when in reality their unique skills, weapons, and equipment are actually quite limited or not that distinctive in practice. Aleph They lost Achilles, and E/M weapons have become very common. Aside from MSV3, HDP, Posthumans, RemDriver, and MSV2 TAGs — which do show off advanced tech — none of these are exclusive equipment, skills, or weapons. Except for Posthumans, which are truly unique, everything else can be found in other Sectorals. Many high-tech tools aren’t even available to Aleph, like HRMC, Fast Panda, WildParrot, or Firewall(-6). In N5, Aleph didn’t just lose its heroes — its identity is also fading. By the way, I hope RemDriver can be used with a full Order to transfer its target, otherwise it’s not very useful. Ariadna Looking at the lore, they’re supposed to be behind Haqqislam and JSA in terms of tech, yet in N5 those factions got Discoball (which honestly I think they should never have gotten — even Yu Jing having it should be questionable). Haqq even received VH. Meanwhile, Ariadna got nothing — T2 ammo was even spread to other weapon types. This isn’t about complaining over missing out on Discoball, but rather: in terms of gameplay rules, what really highlights Ariadna’s uniqueness? Camo? Haqq, JSA, Yu Jing, and Nomads don’t exactly lack it. Wolves and Bears? Their identity is immunity and high W, but in N5 more units gained Immunity (ARM), so the distinction is mostly just in model aesthetics. The Katyusha MRL and Uragan MRL are unique with their Speculative Attack profiles, but that’s clearly not enough. O-12 Compared to Yu Jing, aside from HDP, the tools O-12 originally had are now also in Yu Jing’s hands (Pitcher, Eclipse). In addition, the Imperial Service even matches O-12 in the “police” role by fielding a large number of Non-Lethal Weapons. Para Mines were already taken by the Nomads first. Their identity as a flexible, high-tech toolbox faction has been seriously undermined.
N5 has moved away from the concept of exclusivity as a hallmark of faction identity, and I think it's largely made the game better. Also, I'm pretty certain Posthumans are the only ones with G: Jumper.
Maybe you could take BS Attack (Guided) as a reference—only one can be placed per Round. I’m not sure if I didn’t express myself clearly. I did mention that Posthumans are unique. Also, by your logic, if Ariadna were to get MSV3 or HDP, would that count as making the game environment better? Or do you have a more detailed explanation to share your perspective?
So, you are ok with playing the same faction, but only changing color? Because that will be a huge L for the game and the fanbase.
Turrets are non-reloadable. ARMED TURRET Disposable (1), Deployable, Non-Reloadable, Perimeter. EFFECTS
Pretty sure @fari was replying to this. You're right, nobody spent orders on it because it was free if you had baggage nearby. I guess you only saw 1 or 2 per game, you were lucky, there was mass proliferation everywhere here because you know, free re-load.
ah yes i get it now. Sorry @fari Right. Even I once used a coordinated order to have two turrets put out at the same time and then got re-loaded. But that was once with O12 that had, I think the most, and still also cost a co-order. I still see them now so it's not that like they are not being used. Lately for engineers i've been taking deployable cover instead. I found turrets to be an annoyance more than anything. They were easy to get rid of but you still had to do it.
CB has a tendency to update only when new stuff is available like miniature releases, books etc. and it looks like the have not enough resources to make bigger reworks (without miniature-releases). In the aftermath of N5 there were a lot of corrections and sometime they use smaller events to update stuff. So Aleph and Haq seems to get some updates when the book for them will hit the shelves, USA will get complete redo and maybe in the wave of the new wave sectorial there will be some updates for others (I wouldn´t be surprised when team archibald will go sectorial exclusive). And thx for the analysis - very good conclusion!
Why did you both take my "Infinity is better when tools are less exclusive across factions" comment and immediately jump to the most extreme examples? No, I don't think Ariadna should get MSV3. No, I don't think all factions should be identical with different colours. I can't believe I have to say this, but obviously not. What I am saying is that faction identity is better when it's focusing less on what the faction doesn't have, and more on what they do have, and what they should have are enough varied and interesting profiles to allow for multiple creative ways to approach scenarios and list building. Being overly restrictive leads to profiles overlapping one another in design and role, as there's less creative room to work with to make them distinct. Factions being defined by what they don't have is why I think Ariadna is where it is in N5; Ariadna is so steeped in the idea of being a "low tech" and "have not" faction that it makes it challenging to meaningfully expand with new and interesting profiles. That doesn't mean they should all of a sudden become an army of WIP 15 hidden deployment hackermans with MULTI HMGs, MSV3, and Mim -6, but it wouldn't hurt the faction's identity - nor the identity of other factions - for the faction to expand its repertoire of skills/equipment/weapons by judiciously giving them to existing or new profiles. You did say that, I apologize. I even thought to myself when I was reading your post, "Oh, they already pointed this out," then immediately forgot and wrote what I wrote.
I feel that N5 has demonstrated that you can provide more tools to everyone while also maintaining Faction Identity. These relatively universal tools, like LOS blockers, sensors, Albedo, and access to MSVs is a good thing as it limits hard counters. All of the faction still feel distinct. Pano plays differently than Combined Army. Haqqislam plays differently than Yujing. JSA plays differently than Ariadna. The main thing, IMO, is that PanO finally feels like the hyperpower it should be. The major problem with Ariadna is that they probably need a Hassassin-like update to be more Ambush Style. I feel that CB wanted to test it with Hassassins Sectorial prior to doing a implementing on an entire Faction. Adding more minelayer, hidden deployment, and decoy would help the older Ariadna sectorials
