Hello, Playing a casual game with my weekly Infinity group this week, i was playing against Shasvastii. My opponent placed a S6 mim-6 marker on the table and moved it towards my beacon in Capture and Protect. The S6 marker moved next to a mine (half an inch away) which I deployed during deployment. My ARO was for the shock mine to explode. There was a quick in-game discussion about it, and the S6 marker "ate" the mine, and removed it. ?? Later, the marker revealed to be a Sphinx TAG. Captured my beacon and ran back to my opponent's deployment zone. During our quick discussion, my opponent said no ARO'S can be declared against a camo token, except for Delay, Discover, Dodge, or Reset. The mine exploding is an attack and cannot be done. I could not be bothered at the time to re-read the rules for mines mid-game. However, on page 71, Mines rules box, bullet point 8, states: that a mine must trigger when an enemy Model or Marker that declares or executes a skill or ARO inside the trigger area. This is the point of contention because Camouflage and Impersonation state do mention specifically what can be an ARO against them. Yet, mines are different, they do not declare an ARO. They perform a specific function once the rules are met. So, do mines explode when an enemy camouflage and/or impersnation marker enter the trigger area? I say yes, reading the rules as written and intended, but I may be wrong. What is the actual outcome for this situation please? Thanks.
I believe you are correct - markers will trigger mines according to the rules. That's the way we've played as well.
So firstly Mines do not ARO. They just trigger when an enemy executes a skill in trigger area. With that said they will trigger on camo state but will not on Impersonation because they are perceived as allies
Also, if a Camo Marker activates a Mine, it either gets hit (forcing an ARM or BTS save, depending on the nature of the mine) or tries to (hopefully successfully) Dodge. But in either case, it decamouflages. The Sphinx in the example would have activated the mine, lose the Camouflaged state and hopefully made the required ARM roll. Impersonation Markers are, as said above, a spearate case, because they are considered "friendly" and thus they do not trigger mines.
Thanks for the replies @Law Dawg, @Iskandar, and @Errhile. After further discussion, I think the contention was because the mine is in a camo state, and his TAG was in a camo state, a camo marker cannot declare any attacks against another camo marker. Even though I said it was a mine, I think my opponent was fixated on the camo marker rules and not the mine rules. Either way, he passed a roll, I am unsure what it was but I assume it was a dodge (never said it was a dodge), and my mine was removed. But was still in camo state after the successful roll. Anyway, all good. Thank guys.
Live and learn :) That being said, please do show this conversation to the other player. I guess all of us make one or another mistake (at least in my case it happend often enough!), and that's fine - as long as we can admit we did it the wrong way, and strive not to make the same mistake again.
Likewise, while I really like Infinity, there are so many rules interactions that my group makes mistakes all the time while we play.
I agree. The rules I do remember are from mistakes. I think this is the reliable manner of learning. But it is good to ask questions because we do misread or misinterpret some rules ( I know I have). Or strange siruations do occur that are not simple to resolve.
Just to add a bit about this part, as others said a mine exploding is not an ARO, and its also not an option for you to make, its automatic when a viable target enters its triggering area. That's why some times people will send a cheap unit ahead to trigger a possible mine - the player that deployed the mine cannot choose to 'save' it for a better target that might come later. And just to add a common exception to mines triggering, they won't trigger if the blast would also affect an ally.
I understand that mines do not ARO, but during the game sequence, once my opponent made his first movement basic short skill, he asked if there are any ARO's? I replied with "the mine will explode." I know it is not an ARO, but that is the time to say it during the order sequence. I cannot say it earlier before he makes his movement.
And you were correct. Activation requirements for a mine were met (enemy model activating in LoS & range, no friendly models under the template). This is not technically an ARO, but you have declared it when the requirements were met. If you want ot be hyper-precise, it might sound like "No AROs, but the mine explodes." That's, however, splitting hair in four - not even in two. Honestly, I think we've said everything worth saying in this topic before. Seriously. If oyur opponent is a man worth playing with (and I have no reason to think otherwise), he'll see this topic, nod and say "OK, my bad, next time I'll know how it works." I have loads of that in my local community. And despite all the expereince I have, sometimes it is me who needs to be corrected - or who needs to apologise, because I got some rule interaction wrong.
