I'm not yet familiar with units outside Invincible Army, is there a FireTeam Master for the monks? They could benefit from that quite well.
yes liang kai and Jing Qo have it. Here's my test WB list. Octavia is actually good now! Bust 4 HRL with dogged. She doesn't count as Zhanshi but she already comes with Sixth Sense and Combat Instinct. 1 Core, 1 haris, 3 Duos ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 7 2 2 LÉI GŌNG FTO MULTI Marksman Rifle, Zapper, Blitzen / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 34) YĚ MĀO (Hacker, Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle ( ) / Boarding Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 27) YĚ MĀO Missile Launcher / Boarding Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 26) YĚ MĀO (Engineer, Deactivator) MULTI Rifle, Panzerfaust, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit) / Boarding Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 27) JUJAK Breaker Combi Rifle, Heavy Flamethrower ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 29) DOKKAEBI (Hacker, Hacking Device [UPGRADE: Carbonite (PS=6)]) Combi Rifle, Pitcher ( ) / MULTI Pistol(+1B), PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0.5 | 23) JING QO MULTI Rifle(PS=6) / Boarding Pistol, AP + DA CC Weapon(PS=6). (0 | 32) SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon(PS=5). (0 | 6) SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon(PS=5). (0 | 5) GROUP 2 5 ZHANSHI (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10) ZHANSHI (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 15) ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10) CHIEF JEONG Combi Rifle(AP), E/Mitter, D-Charges, Armed Turret(AP Marksman Rifle) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 31) OKTAVIA (Sixth Sense) Heavy Rocket Launcher, Contender / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 25) 4.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
Instead, I think that Su-Jian really lost a lot in this edition. Without the template the Heavy Shotgun version is much less interesting. Too bad, it's always been my favorite model.
I'm not so sure. I hardly ever used the template on a shotgun. I always had opponents easily dodge them and then even make their ARM saves. I liked getting into +6 range and blasting away with that. And now he has a Thunderbolt. Panzerfaust before was good but TB can be used over and over.
Here's a post for indexing preliminary reaction articles and video, to the N5 version of the generalist and its sectorial armies. Articles : Generalist & Secorials - infinity-n5-faction-first-impressions-yu-jing/ https://www.goonhammer.com/goonhammer-infinity-n5-faction-first-impressions-yu-jing/ Videos : Generalist - Sectorial - Tier list global with a chapter on this faction - Infinity N5 All Factions Tier List - Deranged, Two Days Since Release, Hot Take Edition - Episode 132 - N5 Faction Tierlist
I do not miss the FO. Zuyongs had too much useless loadouts anyway. This was a good clean up. This was my first thought also. I still wonder a bit, what the intension of this troop was. Okay we now have something like the Infiltration flamethrower Grunts. And here I see the main use. The 1 x camo FD4" can be a template attacker in the first round - an annoyance. Warhorse on BS11 short range shooters is more for classfieds then for engaging BS-3 units. 2 pts more and BS 12 and I would see more use in them. For cheerleading I have the now correct priced Zhanshis. Gudans are also in IA ... the HI sectorials gaining more LIs ... too sad they have no specialist. Why they suck? They got cheaper and they are still the 08/15 the butter and bread doctor. Not sure here - see above. They lost: Dogged! Sidenote: BSG ist now a thing. Like all "standard" Engineers he can now throw turrets or deploy cover. Keep in mind they are only 10 pts! If you take a TAG, take this wrong named TAG Supporters too. If they can do an objetive or beat someone up - even better! RF still has her TA. But can not join Aleph team anymore... Disagree here a lot. NCO helps order effeciency. The FO is still a great toolbox. Lost the mines, but gains the E-Mitter (I would keep the mines, but okay now you can ARO on HMG range with MSV) in a team. Can do a lot of CO: MI, MSV, VetTroop ... and LSG+1 B and he now has all ranges: 8", 16-24", 16-32". The MMR is multi now and for 24 pts still a good shooter. Yeah I expected more but I still have to try them out. Its BS went up from 11 to 12 - Pitchers are now without +3 range, but up to 20" with one special dice! Yeah - maybe just because they put him accidently in the box ... Combi Hwarang has BS-3 and Albedo -3 (which all Hwarang have) that make him good figher agianst non -warhorse MSV dudes. In good range he can take out a full pure core MSV Sniper (which I did ... okay they lost two guys before but ....
Some other nice stuff I saw: Lu Duan is now the better Rui Shi? Burst 4 MK12, Surprise-3, EM Mines, Marker state Rui Shi got cheaper version with MSV1, Red Fury and Mine dispenser. Zhencha Hecker got upgrade: Trinity Or Minelayer (2) (only Haq do better: Minelayer 2 with a HD guy ;-) Liu Xing got Firewall -6 Baos got Thunderstick with B3 which make them a good alternative to RuI Shi Kunais can actualy shoot (BS 11 to 12) Shaolin got nerfed with smoke but can now throw it in duo with special dice which is still reliable. Tai Shing is a Warhorse now - which makes her harder to hack and a better shooter up to 16 (I still prefer her Breaker instead of the now B3 HMG range) and she is still a toolbox. Yan Huo are also Warhorse. Okatvia is now linkable. Krit FD and Hulang FD are a very useful pure duo! Ninja KHD got Mines! Some bad stuff: Adil MI ... they take him out of the game for what? First make two versions and make the customer buy it and then took one way for nothing? He was released with the Kaldström box and therefore WB and now his WB Version is gone - thx a lot CB Beasthunters lost NBW Jujaks still not IMM countinious damage Its hard to form a pure core for a reasonable price with Yu Jing. Take a look to Haqqislam (QK) which can form a full Janissare core (BS-3) while get BS 15 and can put in cheap fillers with keyword. Shang Ji is on 10 against them ... 11 if you buy four 25 Jujaks. Starmada goes full pure 137 with Betas paired by one filler and a "Nisse" MSR (including all ranges and two specialsist. Mowang lost Multirifle Kuangs lost dogged Tiangs stil got no keyword (but gaind Warhorse - woho) All in all I dare to say: The positvives vibes prevail! YJ#1
I'm still not on the Gudan train. The camo ones are no mimetisim, easily discovered and killed. If you need to rely on their Warhorse skill, you've done something wrong already. Nobody has changed my mind on Snakes. I'm loving Yan Huo so far. I think Shang Jisus is now overshadowed by Buddhas of Yan Huo and Haetae. Haetae has better BS, ARM, also comes with TacAware, Warhorse, and 5pts cheaper. SJ does have advantage of Tinbot but Haetae is immune to Isolation Haetae can also be in a JJ fireteam with a tinbot. YH is almost the same for only 2pts more than Shang Jisus. I have yet to try this in vanilla so far but I keep making the haris below. It's a pretty nice team with wounds, specialist, firepower, speed, hacking defense. DOKKAEBI (Hacker, Hacking Device [UPGRADE: Carbonite (PS=6)]) Combi Rifle, Pitcher ( ) / MULTI Pistol(+1B), PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0.5 | 23) ZÚYǑNG (Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Breaker Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 27) ZÚYǑNG (Tactical Awareness) Heavy Machine Gun / Breaker Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (1.5 | 33) 2 SWC | 83 Points Open in Infinity Army
2-3 points more for a camouflaged warhorse order that is safely hidden under a camouflaged marker and has a template weapon? what is not to like?
Probably this part: People don't bring cheerleaders to fight, they want a Regular Order and as many points to spare as possible to spend on things they actually want to use. Good defensive options are highly valued, but not at the expense of points unless they have the ability to really drive a gameplan. Flash bots are good; Flash Pulse on 13s with Stun Ammo is a great defensive profile that can stop an enemy Rambo cold, Mimetism for survivability, Repeater for soft control, 3 points under a Fusilier. Morat Vanguards are bad; they have tons of defenses against status weapons that aren't worth using to debuff a cheerleader, a Combi Rifle is bad defensively unless you spend a valuable Order (and they are god damn valuable if you're cheerleading with Vanguards!) to put the Trooper into Suppressive Fire, a Heavy Pistol is poor synergy with the rifle, functionally you're paying 4 points more to get a Zhanshi who is immune to all the rare and expensive weapons your opponent won't shoot at him. Gudans are meh. Their aggressive, short range kit and defensive Camouflage and DTWs can make them nasty counter-attackers against an enemy who gets too comfortable near your DZ, but they're not equipped to press a real direct attack or sneaky enough to do objectives even in game scenarios where they are allowed to. If you have the spare points, it may be worth upgrading a lone Zhanshi if you don't have a better option elsewhere, but it certainly isn't worth the 5-6pts to upgrade from a Chaiyi flash bot. And if a player is running a lone, unlinked, Combi Rifle Zhanshi... it's their LT, or they don't own enough REMs yet.
I guess. But Camo Gudans to me are living E/M Mines. With all the super fast attack pieces in N5, being able to shut down the attack run of any Non-Warhorse unit is worth the minor investment. 12 point cheerleaders that provide regular orders, under camo, and contribute meaningfully to defensive seem decent to me. E/M has always been strong, so has camo, so it seems worth it. But I am looking at it as a Haqqislam player who always defaults to at least 2 Daylami in each list...so ymmv.
It's probably still worthwhile to bring them as part of a more defensive plan... but at that point you're in "weird tech" territory for Yu Jing. Unless you're trying something sneaky with a second list or a specific mission, it's probably better to just play Haqq if you want the hammer-and-anvil strategy! All that heavy power armour doesn't come cheap, and it's still the faction's edge over the competition.
But they are not even as good as mines. They have no mimetisim at all and not even surprise attack. So I know exactly what it is. I stay out side it's zapper or HFT range. Which is also outside its + range for MSG or LSG. If I want to get rid of it, it's a pretty simple discover+shoot. Warhorse is nearly useless on these guys. Who’s going to bother with using E/M on them? If you are in Retreat, something bad has happened and they are not going to help much. They have no weapons to make use of shooting anyone with BS Attack (-3). It irks me even more when Nomads Moran is still super cheap. For 3-6 pts more you get +1 BS, +1 PH, Infiltration, Minelayer with Koalas, Combi, Courage, Forward Observer, Mimetisim -3, Minelayer, Stealth, Terrain total. Another comparison is the Moonraker that’s also relatively new. 2pts more you get Mimetisim -3, FD +8”, Surprise Attack, Minelayer with their shock mines, two pretty good distance weapons. For me to consider them, they need Infiltration, Minelayer, Surprise Attack. Also, just to match their story, they should probably have Infiltration +3. Edit, also yet again their rules don’t match their story. The background has them being underground city fighters, but they have terrain (Mountain)? Give them Total if you are not going to have urban as a terrain.
I think they mixed up the Long Wang with the Qishi for the Fast Attack Fireteams. The Qishi is the pilot, not the TAG. This guy cannot keep up with either the Su Jian or MBH. The bottom of the Long Wang profile that was previewed has it saying it can be part of the Fireteam.
I will say that the Gudan, with the Liberto bring a welcome addition of cheap camo and midfield presence to IA. It's a shame there's no Mim-3 to synergise with the Zhencha or mines but, eh. I've found they work as effective backline guards or objective road blocks with their templates. Move them in camo up to an objective and force the opponent to waste orders to deal with them or risk a HFT. I do agree that Warhorse is a complete waste on them though.
I still think they are worth it, maybe they will even allow for IA to have another LT than a Daoying, though I seriously doubt it.
IA will always run the Daoying, but all of my lists instantly add 2 Gudans right after. The absolutely bonkers change to super jump on top of the active turn being so much stronger than any reactive piece most armies can field means I want a way to stop the enemy cold, and a zapper under camo is the perfect piece to place prone guarding your DZ. Nothing IA has can actually survive a round of ARO duty so it's nice to have some expendable models that just make my opponent think twice. And with the nerf to Stun ammo EM is king, imo.
