N5 Invincible Army First Thoughts

I have big hopes for Shang-Jis. Everyone is tac aware, every loadout is 4pts cheaper, the only negative about them is that they lost the paramedic option. The zuyong paramedic can join their team, but let's be honest that is just a zuyong .
Also shang-jis are one of the few HIs in YJ who kept DAM14 / PS6 melee weapons (Hactao, su-jian has only the PS8 basic CCW for example).

Mówáng is still awesome, just as the Daoying LT, but I haven't found a place for the Libertos though. It need testing.

 

Overall I like most of what I see, just a pile of upgrades that all went in the right direction (defense, more options to handle hacking, etc...)

The gudan and libertos team really looks like a lazy crutch to fix a lot of the sectorials shortcomings, but hey at least it's a good crutch!

I'm really excited to try out the yan huo with their fantastic glow up, and list building is much smoother with the massive point reduction on zhenchas and liu xing.

Overall there's enough orders/firepower/defense around that the "loss" of 5-man core won't be missed too hard I suppose.

 

Finally a Trinity that is not on Haidao!

 

Can I ask you guys how you all make lists for IA? Cause I’m having a really hard time with it. There just seems to be a lot of rock paper scissors in the design of the game now and the lack of any vis mods on zuyong and Shang ji make me feel like I HAVE to bring Bixie and Lei Gong. And then all our warhorse options are in the 40s. So if you fit all that stuff in, there’s no points left for zhenchas. Not trying to be doom and gloom. IA is what got me into the game when i saw a Zuyong in operation Red Veil. Just trying learn from people who maybe aren’t as rigid in their thinking as i am.

Also the Yan Huo is the other model that made me pick YJ and i can neeeeever seem to fit him into anything. I usually go for Capt Qiang over the Yan Huo. But the lack of AP makes me nervous.

 

I haven't played IA yet but I think the big winners were Zhencha and Yan Huo. Other good changes are Liu Xing Hacker, Haidao BTS3, and Gao getting BS-3 and Imm IMM-B.

Tac Aware on all Shang Ji is cool but I still can't see taking more than two of them. They are still only line troops as well.

The only disappointment is the Hulang. He's a little better but not good enough for the points. Still very vulnerable to 1st turn hacking. Still only Vit1 and NWI. He might be better in Dahshat who have cheaper troops and can asborb the death of a the Hulang a lot easier. The changes to D-Charges also hurt him.

I'm still also a little disappointed that there's still only 2 veteran troops and 2 elite troops. Of those they are low AVA or very expensive. Characters make up for vets of course but then those are also AVA1 and expensive. FYI here's 5 cards that vets or elite can do.

 

what type of fireteams you try to create?

 

Unfortunately IA is still a force of This OR That. Not both. You can try to have both but end up having horrible lists that can't do anything. If you take a YH, you will not be able to take a HI core. It's going to difficult to even get in a haris. But now you can do Duos at least. But there's a limited variety of Duos. Invincible, Shock, and Forward are the only ones that have duos.

BTW, this can be done in vYJ too, is a Yan Huo with VF deployable cover. The one that gives +6 mod to ARM. With Imm (Enhanced) they are going to be super difficult to get rid of with shooting. And Warhorse makes them immune to Isolation. But they can be immobilized. But that's also why you keep an ENG near them!

This took longer than it should have. I just couldn't get in a HI haris I was happy with so went with a core Shang Ji + Zhanshi and a Zhanshi haris with Haido sniper. The ENG is going to stick around the YJ to give him cover and his bot to go around.


──────────────────────────────────────────────────
GROUP 1 8 1 2
YĀN HUǑ Hyper-Rapid Magnetic Cannon / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 47)
MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges ( | Deployable Cover) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
YÁOZĂO PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)

ZHANSHI (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12)
ZHANSHI (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 15)
SHÀNG JÍ AP Heavy Machine Gun ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Boarding Pistol, AP CC Weapon(PS=6). (1.5 | 45)

WÈIBĪNG Yaókòng (Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 17)
ZHĒNCHÁ (Minelayer [2]) Submachine Gun, Panzerfaust, Shock Mine / Silenced Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 32)
ZHĒNCHÁ (Hacker, Hacking Device [UPGRADE: Trinity]) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges ( ) / Silenced Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 34)
LIBERTO Submachine Gun, Chain-colt / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
GROUP 2 6
ZHANSHI (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10)
GŪDǍN FTO Light Shotgun, Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11)
HǍIDÀO (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle ( ) / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 29)

PANGGULING (Deactivator, Repeater) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 8)
CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
6 SWC | 300 Points
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the best kind of course! But in seriousness. I’m thinking 2-3 2-3 person groups? Cause I don’t know that 5 man is as good in IA without having no points for any kind of mid field or drop troop threat.

I’m gonna paste an army code and see what happens!

gMwPaW52aW5jaWJsZS1hcm15EUlBIHBvd2VyIGhhcmlzIHgygSwBAQAKAYY%2FAQEAAoCWAQsAA38BBgAEhO8BAgAFhdoBAQAGhdkBAgAHhOsBAgAIhNwBBAAJgI4BAQAKgI4BAQA%3D

 

Whelp the list didn’t show up like Space Rangers did. Total fail

 

So your list Space Ranger is what I’ve been trying to stay away from but finding myself running into if I want that second order pool. Is it necessarily bad to only have 1 order pool? I just worry it won’t have enough orders to do anything

 

I would try 3-4 pure duos and one Haris maybe?

 

Something like that.

test
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

9 1 4
DĀOYĪNG (Lieutenant [+1 Order], Minelayer) MULTI Sniper Rifle, Shock Mine / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 34)

ZÚYǑNG (Tactical Awareness) Heavy Machine Gun / Breaker Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (1.5 | 33)
ZÚYǑNG (Paramedic) MULTI Rifle ( | MediKit) / Breaker Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 26)

ZÚYǑNG (Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Breaker Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 27)
HǍIDÀO (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun(+1B), Pitcher, D-Charges ( ) / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 22)

ZHĒNCHÁ (Hacker, Hacking Device [UPGRADE: Trinity]) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges ( ) / Silenced Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 34)

SHÀNG JÍ Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Boarding Pistol, AP CC Weapon(PS=6). (1.5 | 34)
SHÀNG JÍ (Hacker, Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle, Flash Pulse, D-Charges ( ) / Boarding Pistol, AP CC Weapon(PS=6). (0.5 | 40)

BÌXIÉ MULTI Rifle, Zapper, Flash Pulse / Pistol, E/M CC Weapon(PS=6). (0 | 41)

LIBERTO (Minelayer) Light Shotgun, Shock Mine / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 8)

6 SWC | 299 Points

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It's the button next to the Generate Army Code. Then copy and paste it all.

There's nothing wrong with one group at all. But it needs to be efficient. You have 10 orders, 1 Tac, 1 NCO. You just need to make sure those few use those orders well. It's also a matter of taste. I did the Yan Huo because you had mentioned it. If you want YH it's going to replace troops like Shang Ji. It's too expensive otherwise. I find limiting to 10 is too limiting. You miss out on good cheap things. I could do a Haidao Engineer or Krit but then I don't get the DepCover or Turret.

Here's a new list I like but no longer hast he MechEng, which makes me sad. I actually like it. The YH have a Level 3 team or split up into several duo.
I think Shang Jisus has been been supplanted some. Both in IA and WB and vYJ. The YH Multi-HMG is of course a better gun, but then add better ARM, BS14, and Warhorse. I think it's pretty damn good. In WB and vYJ he's now overshadowed a bit by the Haetae. Haetae Buddha has better ARM, better BS, but also AP HMG or HRL, also TacAware, Warhorse, and it's 5pts cheaper!

Yan Huo FT1
──────────────────────────────────────────────────
10 2
DĀOYĪNG (Lieutenant [+1 Order], Minelayer) MULTI Sniper Rifle, Shock Mine / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 34)
YĀN HUǑ FTO MULTI Heavy Machine Gun / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 45)
YĀN HUǑ FTO Missile Launcher(+1B), Mine Dispenser(Shock) / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 41)
ZÚYǑNG (Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Breaker Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 27)
ZÚYǑNG (Paramedic) MULTI Rifle ( | MediKit) / Breaker Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 26)
ZÚYǑNG Boarding Shotgun, E/Mitter / Breaker Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 22)
KOKRAM (Forward Deployment [+8"], Minelayer) Heavy Shotgun, E/Mitter, Chain-colt, E/M Mine ( | Deployable Repeater) / Heavy Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 37)
YÁOZĂO PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
ZHĒNCHÁ (Hacker, Hacking Device [UPGRADE: Trinity]) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges ( ) / Silenced Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 34)
WÈIBĪNG Yaókòng (Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 17)
PANGGULING (Hacker, EVO Hacking Device) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 14)
5 SWC | 300 Points
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After getting really excited then playing around with lists I've come to the conclusion that the YH just works better as it's standalone Neurocinetics or HRMC piece than in a fireteam.

The Imm (ARM), Religious, and Warhorse fix the problems it had as a standalone ARO piece, especially now fireteam B bonus isn't a thing.

Putting it in a fireteam means a minimum of 2 Zuyong or SJ which are expensive and want to use the extra orders they've got to move close and do stuff. The YH just wants to sit back in cover and be a menace. Also uses your Core or Haris.

The only time I'd consider him in a fireteam is if I was going full retard castle with YH missile, Haidao MSV2 MSR, AP HMG Shang Ji-sus, and a filler Zuyong. But then that's half your points and 4.5SWC.

I mean I'll definitely try it at some point, if only to scare the hell out of my opponent , just I think YH is good enough on his own now that it's hard to justify the cost chasing the +1SD.

 

This is all glorious information. You are all proving the universe’s greatest truth. That Yu Jing is truly number1.

I will definitely try those lists out. After reading Darthchap’s post. Does everyone agree that Yan Huo fto is a bit of a trap and that Yan Huo neuro or hrmc is the ideal?

 

Oh my statement is based on nothing more than pure vibes as I've not had a chance to try it yet. I think YH in a Haris or Core will definitely be fun now, rather than the straight trap it was in N4; I'm just happy units have value outside of fireteams now and that's where it really shines in my opinion.

 

You can bad mouth all day long my precious Shang-Ji, I'll still use them heavily in my lists !

As for actual list my plan is this:
3 Shang-Ji Big Boi Camo MSV
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

10 3
DĀOYĪNG (Lieutenant [+1 Order]) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 23)
MÓWÁNG (NCO) Spitfire, Flammenspeer / AP Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon(PS=7). (1.5 | 44)
ZHĒNCHÁ (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, Panzerfaust, Flash Pulse, Shock Mine / Silenced Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 31)
HǍIDÀO (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle ( ) / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 29)
SHÀNG JÍ Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Boarding Pistol, AP CC Weapon(PS=6). (1.5 | 34)
SHÀNG JÍ AP Heavy Machine Gun ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Boarding Pistol, AP CC Weapon(PS=6). (1.5 | 45)
SHÀNG JÍ (Forward Observer) MULTI Rifle, Flash Pulse / Boarding Pistol, AP CC Weapon(PS=6). (0 | 36)
HÙSÒNG Yaókòng Thunderbolt(+1B) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 18)
Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
YÁOZĂO PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
YÁOZĂO PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)

6 SWC | 294 Points

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Shang-ji haris on one side, Mówáng doing NCO things on the other side of the board and there is still some room for MSV2 sniper and Zencha mine shenanigans. Yes I'm aware that there is no warhorse thingy in the list, but you can't counter always everything.

 

No I can definitely see a point to use a yan huo MHMG or Missile launcher as a 3rd man for a potent Invincible duo that doesn't really need it to move forward, while being low SWC usage, something like Tai sheng MK12 + zuyong tinbot.

The FTO versions of the yan-huo have always been a middle step between the pure ARO power of the Neurocinetic ML and the raw BRRRRT of the HRMC: the FTO ML gets burst 3 and a mine dispenser for active, while the FTO MHMG gets EXP ammo for reactive.
So you have your special dice for the opening moves, blast what needs to be blasted, then leave it on a rooftop to be a glorious and annoying brick while the duo moves forward to do the mission.

Also, I lowkey forsee that we'll see less big ass ARO turret like Bolts or riot girls with the fireteam nerf, so lesser AROs might not be as willingly exposed and might require your yan huo to move around a bit. Might as well do it with tac aware/NCO orders and a specialist in tow I say.

 

So far the biggest adjustment I'm making is having to think about wildcards and out-of-keyword troops differently, because it really changes the calculus of who goes in a team. A Haidao in a duo might as well be a solo piece, but that's not true of lots of other units in our roster, and I end up taking them in lists only when I have a) a specific use for them, and b) space in a haris or core team slot that I don't need for anything else. The Pangguling FTO has gone from cheap filler to "play only when I want to be able to advance Baggage across the board for strategic reasons."

This often isn't that different from N4, but sometimes it is, and sometimes it's the contrast with the increased power of matching duos that throws me off. Sure, I could put a MSV1 Rui Shi in a duo with a Zuyong, but I could also put Lei Gong in there and get better bonuses. In a faction with a lot of powerful duo options, a mismatched duo starts to feel like an unwise compromise, and I think that's something I need to dial back on. Sometimes the unmatched duo is going to be a legit play for one reason or another.

I liked Jeong in N4, and I really like him in N5. Take the turret profile if he's hanging out in your DZ near a Pangguling. Take the other one as a point man in a light haris of Zhanshi specialists to run objectives while your power armor is off doing something somewhere else, or as an add-on in an Invincibles team when you really, really need an unhackable buddy. The fact that in a Zhanshi duo or Invincibles haris he's rolling five dice with a combi or 4 dice with an e/mitter makes him shockingly good at attack runs for someone really squishy, and the ability to Deactivator mines and turrets within 8" through walls is really compelling.

Our access to Disco Baller is weird and I don't know how I feel about it, but I guess it's nice to have the option, even if it is locked behind a 31 pt trooper in a faction of Everything Is Expensive.

Zhencha and Hac Tao being able to just walk past turrets in marker state is honestly really great, and I need to remember that when I'm strategizing lists.

Liu Xing or Zhencha spam is still a meme, but now only like 80% meme. Love that.

Having run some Yan Huo FTOs recently...

Missile Launcher FTO is a great tool in a team designed to hang back near your DZ. I really liked him in a link with Gao and a Zuyong tinbot, or APHMG Shang-Ji and a Zuyong paramedic. The ability to hang out near a Pangguling and just lob mines out if your opponent didn't leave anything for you to shoot means that the team can see use as a fallback way to spend orders fortifying your DZ. For defensive and area-control missions it's a really solid angle. If you find that you need to move them out, it's probably safe to leave the Yan Huo back in the DZ on overwatch duty and advance with the other two, you won't lose any link bonuses anyway.

MHMG FTO is significantly tougher than Shang-Ji APHMG, trading away versatility and mobility for being an absolute brick. It's the only Yan Huo profile I'd be comfortable with in a team advancing toward the midfield, and so it kinda needs a tinbot. I found that a Zuyong paramedic and Tai Sheng tinbot breaker combi made for a good team, giving you more ARO and short-range gunfighting options, some ability to self-repair, NCO for moving the team around, multiple specialists, etc.

Warning regarding viral weapons... The Yan Huo is going to have a bad day playing into Tohaa and Haqq generally, and HB in particular. Attackers with viral and either mimetism or the ability to smoke-shoot will rip him apart like paper if you don't manage to consistently win the FtF rolls. They absolutely do not want to stand up to an active Lasiq in a fireteam if the Haqq player gets to choose the rangebands of the engagement, and may not do great against a viral ARO either.