We have disco-ball hacker, camo hackers, parachutists hackers, parachutists with e/mitter+zapper and a B4 e/m carabin plane :D.
Thanks to @UpirLihi Image added to first post as well. I sadly can't say I'm super enthused yet. Are they not supposed to be TAG killers? Some of the weapons show that but not fantastic. But Albedo? AFAIK the only TAG with MSV is Maruts. I was thinking there would be a hacker with Total Control +1 Damage. The only specialist is an SO? Only a single D-Charge yet again! I'm never going to be destroy an AC unit or Server am I? I can't say I'm super enthusiastic.
The MI tax seems to have held into N5! I like it, it's a cool idea for a troop, but my lord, 30pts for the sapper is a lot. More than the 2w Nikoul with msv1. For the FTOs, I can see the K1 marksman on point for a very nice haris/duo, but it's only a few points off of N4 HI prices. Very squishy for that many points. No shock immune. No mobility skills. I'll try it but I don't think it will see much play at that price. Frankly unless it can pure with Zhanshi or something, I think it'll end up as proxy fodder :/
More generally, I'm seeing HI and Tags drop precipitously in points, but not with MI. Not a good sign.
Um we (hehe I can finally say this in a YJ thread ) have a lot of DA CCW-s and MULTI Rifle HI-s for anti-material ammo IMHO we are fine on that front. As for the Albedo on the snake is a strange choice, BUT it is there perhaps to counter the Nisse and the other MSV SWF units while he/she can eliminate Jotums with K1 ammo: against them that is a +10Damage bonus!
Silver Snakes are overcosted by 4-5 points. Base stats are similar to those of Tanuki and Firefly and they get much less for more points. As Mahtamori has noticed, they are exactly a N3 Moira that only affects MSV and Marksman units. Similar stats and cost. So either this profile is outdated or YJ gets tax in MI . Which I would not mind as MI have never been the factions forte, but then give us cheap high quality HI instead of the mediocre overcosted HIs YJ gets when other factions get very good HI at discounted prices.
While I agree it is paying a premium, it matters if Sapper gives Mimetism -3 in N5. If it does, then a Silver Snake cannot have that mod negated unless it triggers Albedo. That makes it unique. I feel like in N4, these would have been in the 30s, so I think there was a modest price drop. At least comparing the N4 Vargar. EDIT: Maybe. It is quite weird pricing.
I know that many times CB has made troops that don’t follow their story or name at all. SS are supposed to be TAG killers but it’s like they went out of their way make them meh. Equipment First off, Albedo. What is this supposed to do? I guess to kill off TAG MSV support? But there’s other troops for that. Albedo seems like it will great in N5 but just not on them. Skills Courage and Stealth are fine, I guess. But neither are super needed to fight a TAG. I don’t’ know if I want them in ZoC of a TAG. Of skills I would have liked to fight a TAG it would be BS Attack (+1 Dam), BS Attack (AP). Hidden Deployment, Surprise Attack. Weapons Unless they are changing the regular E/Mitter, an E/M Carbine from we know is a +1 Burst E/Mitter with a different name. It’s said they have a rifle range but E/Mitters already have a rifle range. These are good but I would have also would have liked to Blitzen, E/M Grenades, E/M CCW and E/Marat. K1 Marksman is not bad. It makes any TAG/HI ARM0. Cool. But it’s still damage 13. 14 or more and it’s fine. I would have liked Feuerbach, Portable Autocannon, Missile Launcher, AP HMG. Etc. The K1 Sniper is cool but a bit expensive. I hate the sapper skill. It’s a waste of an order most of the time. I’d rather take a Ye Mao Missile Launcher who has Mim-3, MSV1, and can get to places to take the shot with cover. The SWC .5 is nice but the 30pts is not. They also have little to no CC weapons or skills. Only one with D-Charges. I wouldn’t want them to get into CC but it would be nice to have the weapons for other missions. I would think a TAG fighter should at least a DA CCW. BSG is the good reason for Stealth, but I still can’t see using them on a TAG unless I’m behind it. The Forward Deploy of only 4” seems stupid. He only has a BSG so he’s still not in good range to do anything and can’t even make effective use of the AP mine. They also downgraded the E/M carbine to a regular E/Mitter. Good luck with that burst 1. He’d be good with Parachutist. Cost I can’t tell yet, but they seem a bit expensive for what they do. Even if the price for Ye Mao stays as it is I’d probably take them over SS. Even more so if the cost goes down. They are just not doing anything anyone else in the faction can't do.
Nothing of special. The better profile is the sapper with k1 sniper, but in vanilla Lunah is better, and in WB Ye Mao with missile launcher is better. So they removed the unplayed units to add another unit that will not be played.
Sapper sucks. I used it in Shasvastii. It limits your movement for little payback. If you get out of the sapper hole you are never going to get back in. But you need to get out because you can't see the damn thing you want to shoot.
IF snakes get pure with zisheng or something, I'd give a duo'd k1 marksman a spin for sure. I particularly dislike the lack of movement skills for r6he sniper, and the lack shock immune. Quite a stiff profile. Agreed, Ye Mao are way better.
I also expected more from them after reading the leaked fluff. They are designed to fight TAGs - especialy Jotums and therefore I hoped for good firepower. What we got is more or less a unit that fights armoured units that have arm 4 but not 10. The Profile looks solid, but they are ARM 3 with one wound without any special to stay longer after one serious impact (and Jotums impacts are serious). Then albedo. Why? It looks like CB want to give WB albedo outside of Lei Gong. Fine, but why on the TAG hunter unit? Passing the Nisses will still result in hits on 7 - too high to ignore and split burst will result in Jotum impacts. With all the lighter weapons a PS-1 would be helpful. Skills and equipment look good on first sight. Until you see that there are no real big guns. Firebachs are rare in Yu Jing and I don´t remember a Autocannon in JYs arsenal. I think they are somehow the answer to the Vargs. While Pan O has some untypical stuff, the Snakes have AP and EM but mostly with light caliber and without the usual B-Boni. AP mines are nice to have though. K1 is a thing. The FD guy has at least minelayer. The BSGs are a bit too shortranged to fight TAGs on BS-Level. Without proper movment skills its also hard to get in the back of the prey to deliver the B1-2 EM stuff. So Ye Mao spitfire looks like a better TAG hunter ... mime reduces TAGs to BS 12 and MSV helps to fight TAGs with mime which are more numerus then TAGs with MSV. The missing CC abilitys or EM CCW are okay, I think the snakes are designed for BS combat. The Sniper looks good but is hard to place ... and it will be active not ARO with B1. Thats too expensive for 30 pts. I think the best anti-TAG profile is the 29 K1 MMR while the M-MMR is more for HIs. To bad there are not big guns for the big game hunting. Slightly off there fluff. Instead of dedicated TAG jägers they are more or less a niche units for light/medim armored troops.
I actually think its going to be an interesting tool for WB. The think I struggled most to deal with when I use WB is actually a tough ARO with MSV. My most regular opponent played a lot or Morats and moved to O-12 and having some tough ARO that I can't leverage smoke or Mimetism would frustrate me especially if I decided to just brute force them with my own fireteams and they made saves. It wasn't until I started to use the linked Haetae HRL that I started to get some headway.
Albedo will be great. Just not on them! As archon said, with their low damage weapons they look to be more HI killers than TAG. Then they also don't add any good specialists. Other than K1, they add little to the faction. Now I can hope the Gudan are better.
If the sapper could fireteam it would be another matter. It looks like another case of CB being hyper-cautious in one (MI) case, whilst spamming tags with more discounts and buffs. I do wonder what apocalyptic vision their designers are wracked with concerning MI! Why do arm3 vit1 models haunt their nightmares? :D Why has CB consistently mis-pointed 80% of MI for so long? As excited as I am for N5, I do think it is shaping up to be dominated by tags and cheap warbands again, and this little snake won't be doing anything about either of those things.
I see the MI tax as a long overdue revenge on Ariadnans and Nomads (the main MI factions). At least that is my Copium.
Thanks to @Crusader Also updated on the first post. Finally! Many good reasons to take him over a Shang Ji. He already had Veteran (warhorse) and ECM Hacking -3. Gains BS Attack -3, +1 ARM, Immune IMM-B Lost +1 damage, Lt. +1 order Lt. SWC went down .5 SWC, price went down 1 point. Up 3pts on the non Lt.
After Ctp Qiang and Jannisarries I'm hopeful yet again that Shang-Jis will get something nice, not just 3pts price drop.
So far: Long Wang: Awesome! Bit more expensive than I wanted but it is good for the price. Crane Adil: Very good. Again, expensive but very good for the points. Feiquan: Good. I think it’s cool but I will need to try it out. It has fairly short ranged weapons and many that are just non leathal. I mainly like it for the Sensor. Lei Gong: Good but not great. I don’t like the fact he’s now hackable. The specialist is still only on one version. I only like the MMR. Imm (ARM) is good and so is super jump. He at least has good synergy with Ye Mao in White Banner. In IA he can no longer be a hacker killer. Parachutist is cool but not very powerful. He looks to be a loner in IA. Silver Snakes: Meh to bad. You can already see my take on them above. Gao: Much better. Overall, So far, we still have seen very expensive stuff in an expensive faction. Vanilla still looks a bit screwed for good cheap specialists. Below are the cheapest specialists vYJ has and I wouldn’t call any of them “good”. It doesn't get much better at the 25pt range either. Cheapest Specialits ────────────────────────────────────────────────── ZHANSHI (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12) ZHANSHI (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13) MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15) Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15) WÈIBĪNG Yaókòng Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15) PANGGULING (Hacker, EVO Hacking Device) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 15) ZHANSHI (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 16)
