Let´s hope duos remain the same. Maybe we will see some change there in FT tables. If not, maybe we will see other interesting things not only in Pano. I was thinking on: geckos, maggies... shakus... :) I´m optimistic with Pano in N5.
Albedo(-6) = Mimetism vs Visors/Marksmanship all game BS Attack(SR-1) = Possibility of Survival -1 (old +1 Damage) Armed Turret (Marksman Rifle)... ¿Positional Weapon? ¿Minelaying a turret?
Albedo now affects marksmanship? Wow! That plus it lasting all game is a very nice buff and a good counter to marksman profiles! The 23 point Engineer is also not bad. They feel like a mix between Kaplans and Muyibs. With SMGs, they are quite cheap. The 23 point Chain of Command feels like a steal.
Specialist profiles are very pricy (and not a fan of "all the SMG") but damn, between this and Griffin, this is the kind of stuff I wanted for Pano since N4 dropped...
The new Albedo also indicates that there exists counters to "MSV everywhere" factions like Kestrel, and at least some non-MSV shooters is a good idea to include.
Though the fact that it also works against Marksmanship puts a hole in the best alternative, rare as it is. While VPanO has a few alternatives, I dread to think how Kestrel can handle something like an Overdron.
With this change? quite well, the issue was before were you could not see. I had the pleasure of bringing a white banner list and facing two Overdrones, only the Long Ya could see them...
Hetkari are an interesting unit. They will be great at winning FtF rolls and have good durability. The MULTI Red Fury (if it has damage 13) will have limitations. The Missile Launcher, SMG is an odd bird that would make a great ARO piece. It definitely has a different role than the knights of Justice, Aquila, and Swiss Guards. Looking at the point cost, it would be reasonable to see those models getting some price cuts. Peak PanO.
I agree with everything but about ML being good ARO. Too expensive and smoke will avoid any action from this guy. Range band will put him in a really bad situation against mimetism (or even albedo, for what they said it will affect marksman too) as aro piece. Even as an active one could struggle... it could not be unusual to shoot to 14s or 11s more than to 17s... sadly.
I feel like for that profile, you want to move him up and set him on Suppressive Fire. An unmodifiable -6 is strong. And if someone tries to outrange you, you shoot them with a missile. That feels like a nice wall.
With Marksmanship, even vs Mimetism and Albedo, he’ll likely be at worst BS11, and with the best you’ll ever get against him (outside of TAGs) will be PS10. He can just camp just outside the DZ and shred things.
I mean, a B2k1 BS11 Missile Launcher with better Mimetism and no other negative modifers is still pretty darn good at ARO. Take, for example, a Core-Linked Vet Kazak, one of the better offensive HMGs due to AP, BS13, and Mimetism. Vet Kazak coming in at Burst 5k4, BS13, +1 for Fireteam, +3 range, -3 cover, -3 from the Hektari for a total of BS11. Hektari shoots back with Blast mode at Burst 2k1, BS14, +3 for Range, -3 for Mimetism. Spoiler That's far from the results you want as an attacker. Or how about a Core-linked Yaogat Sniper? That's a pretty scary attacking piece. B4k3, BS12, +1/+3/-3/-3 down to BS10 with DA Ammo. Hektari fires back at B2k1, BS14, +3 for Range up to BS17 with Explosive Ammo. Spoiler Okay well that's just terrible. Let's try something else: a Spetsnaz HMG coming out of Camo. Surprise Attack, Mimetism, Marksmanship, we got everything. B4, BS12, +3/-3 back to 12. Hektari shooting back with Burst 2k1 at 11's. Spoiler Okay! We finally got somewhere, and the Spetsnaz is actually likely to win the Ftf. Unfortunately, he's only got about a 1/10 shot of killing the Hektari, and once Surprise Attack is out of the way... Spoiler ... More likely to die than finish him off. Not the worst option, but again, this is far from the numbers you want to see as an Attacker. Okay, that's it, let's pull out the Overdron. Burst 5 HRMC with Albedo, and let's assume it's also -6 this time around. And let's even assume you're a madlad and took a Duo of them for that sick B6k5. BS13, +3/-3/-3 means you're down to BS10, but the Hektari is down to 11's, so surely this goes well for you. Spoiler There we finally go. Finally, something that will kill him off consistently, though at the cost of ~3 orders and over 110 points. So, as you can see, it's actually quite a bit of a struggle to find something that can consistently deal with him without getting inside that 24" Rangeband. He's incredibly consistent, and anything that actually has tools to deal with him still has to deal with Marksmanship and BS Attack (-3) being effectively un-counterable dice modifiers. Not to mention at ARM 5 he can take a bunch of punishment before he actually goes down. EDIT: Flubbed up the Overdron math; it is fixed.
Yeah, they are a lot of uses case where Hetkari can be hard to beat, but they are many others in which isn´t. 1. ML for N4 experience we know isn´t usually hard to get into 48´´ range, so no +3 for Hetkari. Spetznat can do it easily thanks to camouflage. A little less often, but not unusual, to shoot him in the -3 band range with a snipper. 2. Surprise attack can happen again using move, see, move back outside LoF, then camouflage, once more. If you do the maths with these non so extraordinary cases you will see chances for this guy to hit and win the f2f drops drastically. No worse than classic mimetism against no visor troups, still some armies have to use this approach as regular. 3. VOL12, no skills to avoid guts roll, so you don´t need necessary to kill him to avoid him. 4. In order to have that B2K1 you are investing no less than 86 points 1.5 SWC, not so far from the Overdron B5K4 not even so far from full core with Yaogat. 5. Any cheap warband with smoke can avoid the ARO of this guy. No visor. Albedo overdron with HMC can shoot going to 0 against Hetkari going to -3 per range bands. This mean the TAG will shot B5 to 7 against B2k1. If you choose plasma snipper odds are even better. I mean, ML I think is one of those profiles you look on it over the paper and looks too good, but on the table it will under perform so bad that probably you will send him back to the box and try to find another profile to do same work but cheaper or better.
It is the general opinion... I know. But I think that is the idea of CB, that it cannot be countered... because I think what they are looking for with this skill is to increase the BS artificially... and BS could be reduced but not countered. I think it's a trick, a way to give more than BS 15 without reducing the chances of failure. I'm not saying it's right or wrong... but I think that's the idea.
Triangulated fire is the most obvious counter, but forcing the model to not do a BS attack is also a counter. In general I like them, they are a good firepower unit for a faction that leans heavily in firepower.
The smoke shooting Intruder HMG lives for this fight: Intruder coming in at Burst 4, BS13, +3 range, -3 cover, -3 from the Hektari for a total of BS10. Hektari shoots back with Blast mode at Burst 2k1, BS14, +3 for Range, -3 for Mimetism, -3 Surprise Shot, - 6 Zero Vis for a total of BS5. Active (0.63 wounds / order): Wins F2F: 81.2% Causes 1+ wounds: 47.1%, Causes 2+ wounds: 13.7%, Causes 3+ wounds: 2.4% Failure: No wounds caused: 43.9% (34.1% chance active player causes no wounds) (2.9% chance reactive player causes no wounds) Reactive (0.12 wounds / order): Wins F2F: 12.0% Causes 1+ wounds: 9.1%, Causes 2+ wounds: 2.9% EDIT: For Haqqislam, A smoke shooting Muktar within 24" can also brute force it safely: Active (0.45 wounds / order): Wins F2F: 81.2% Causes 1+ wounds: 36.5%, Causes 2+ wounds: 7.7%, Causes 3+ wounds: 0.9% Failure: No wounds caused: 51.8% (44.6% chance active player causes no wounds) (0.3% chance reactive player causes no wounds) Reactive (0.28 wounds / order): Wins F2F: 12.0% Causes 1+ wounds: 11.7%, Causes 2+ wounds: 9.8%, Causes 3+ wounds: 5.6%
