Sorry, french forums, but I don't find it here, rosters for vanilla armies: https://www.bureau-aegis.org/forum/index.php?topic=17400.280 Cheers
Just note, we still have no idea what Haqqislam, Aleph, and Tohaa lists will look like in N5 as they are not in the Lore Book. It has been confirmed they will be in the game, however. Now we hope for more previews to tide us over until November 18th when the rules and Army App get updated.
You do not know that, come and complain to me after November 18th. Ultimately, and forgive me for been bluntly cynical here, the best for CB is the best for their customers, a surviving and thriving CB will be able to serve their customers. Yes, I do get and understand not all decisions will be met with rousing approval and there will be people who will not like them, but it is up to the ones who run the company to make the tough calls with the interest of the company and their customers as a whole in mind. Yes, apologies to the posters that got their posts removed as collateral to this mess. Also this is the final and terminal warning before you two get a time out.
...As part of their revenue stream, I struggle to see how CB having more of my money for less effort on their part is in any way in my interest. While the company dying obviously puts a freeze on future maintenance, frankly CB going bankrupt is a better outcome for me than cutting most of my armies. I can understand the desire to simplify the range and tighten balancing, but this wasn't the way to go about it. The drip-feed hype cycle is only heightening panic, and the treatment of the older Sectorials is only going to generate resentment- plus, how will it look to new players drawn to Infinity by the animated tie-in if half the local players are pushing around half-painted ALEPH lists grumbling about how their armies are gone?
The best for CB is the best for... What? What in the name of Adam Smith is going on here?! There are very few cases where interests of seller overlap completely with the interest of its customers and this is not the case. This whole thread is devolving into something... very absurd, and it was started in good faith and on a very important topic.
As most threads on sensitive topics with a heated "debate" (because, really, it isn't a debate) tend to do. Unless a moderator puts such a thread out of its misery.
We need to chill up. N4 was the same. They started with a limited list of sectorials and then added them down the line. This led to bad decisions from customers (like me not picking up the NCA packs, which I still regret to this day), but in the end, they came back and I’m sure CB will get them in later on. I hope I’m right as would set a frankly gloomy precedent, overruling the customer friendly approach of CB to not leave strong portions of minis unplayable without proxying them, but all we can say is that until this very day any precedent from CB is a good one. I am too “worried” about all my SAA and VIRD troopers, but I’ll let CB the benefit of doubt.
Hello, I started to play with Acontecimento, and in to time I bring then to the table. I'm a player who usually play major tournaments with one army and the local with the one I want that day, sometimes even randomly (not always, but with a regular basis), plus I have Acontecimento, NCA, Varuna, Merovingian... So I lost a lot of forces. Not happy. Not at all. When OOP thing started rumors said they will be some kind of rotation, now we see no rotation... So, my point is I'm not happy, even I feel angry ,betrayed and sad, a lot of thing, but when I'm really convinced CB could be made things in other way I can understand the reasons to do what they are doing. My point, we should show CB how we feel, openly and loud and on same time, not forget that CB are a Company which makes money and need to, but they are too people, so we don't should show disrespect. I still have little hope yet, they will go back with this. However, the worse they did, I think is to fail how to send the message, maybe to slow, too close to N5. As others said, Communication is key. As others forum users pointed right before me. Best regards!
Which is why I stand by my opinion CB could do better in communications. Still, from what I've heard in the OTT vids early this week, I'm pretty sure it is the Spiral who got axed, and all the other missing sectorials are going to be back in a few months (and yes, as a StarCo player, I have a dog in this fight). Also - which, again, is absolutely my private opinion - all the Tohaa from Spiral, save for literally one sculpt, can be fully used in vanilla Tohaa. Of course, if someone had an extensive Spiral collection, then there comes the problem of what to do with non-Tohaa mercs in it, and there is no obvious solution I can see.
But... trust didn't grow after Uprising. The thing is it only affected a minority of players while the rest were laughing at them with Bostria joking about "YJ tears" in official videos; fast forward to now when more players got a taste of the same policies CB has been using for years and suddenly it's a problem. At least they are not joking at the expense of their paying customers now, I guess? Edit: how the hell is "Yu Jing keeping its base sectorials forever" when they were the first faction to get one sectorial axed?
Thanks for proving my point, I said as a whole for a reason. completely no, but there are ground that there are mutual benefits, I try to keep this tread open, but if it devolves it will be closed. It is possible, probably the prerelease of the book before the scheduled release created this "communication" issue, a thing to take notice for the future.
When did we get to "if the company fucks you, it's your fault"? You can repeat it all you want but that doesn't make it true. Also, of course the choice to fuck their customer up is Corvus', but that doesn't mean the customers who paid the products they now can't use can't voice their discontent. No wonder we got to "fuck all the customers and don't give a damn because they'll keep bending over" late stage capitalism with people like you
Maybe they should indeed had left the Japanese in Yu Jing and turn Yu Jing into the Japanese faction since they are far more popular than Yu Jing, stifling all growth for non Japanese units. A sectorial left untouched for five years with the only releases it got been resculpts are repacs and one of them been the Ninja done for for Yu Jing and not JSA, vastly outperforming Yu Jing who have a constant release flow and support, to the point that becoming a true faction is justifiable, and we already had complains Japanese units were getting more releases than the Chinese pats of Yu Jing before the separation, yes, why would a design team want to separate these two I wonder? Yes, I know you didn't like it, yes I know you have not a single drop of humour in you (otherwise you would understand it "Yu Jing tears" was a joke, a good one?, a bad one? a joke never the less), but in the end I think it was for the best of Yu Jing and the Japanese that they got separated.
What? They said, we have too many sectorials, we need to cut the number down, and then proceed to create 2 totally new sectorials NO ONE asked for, pissing a huge number of people and completing the transition to "greedy miniature company", and we have to simply accept that this is the best outcome possible? Except that time CB said quickly and clearly, "dont worry, these armies will be playable, but will arrive later", at any chance posibble and repeated several times. Guess what they aren't doing this time
Something being a joke doesn't mean it can't be nasty, offensive, or uncalled for. It's actually first line of defense of particular brand of people, "take that stick out of your ass, it's just a joke". And I'd very much prefer if we wouldn't use this here, it's incredibly lame. Yeah, "YJ tears" was a joke. It was also a stupid one, doubly so when used by a representative of a company to describe their customers unsatisfied with some major changes in how they can use their products. Another thing that would be very nice is to admit that while the sky as a whole isn't falling and the changes being made might be good for the game in the long run, in the short run that sky will actually give some people a nasty bump, their complains aren't unwarranted, and dismissing them as being their choice is both callous and misguided. Again, on the surface of it we can agree, CB makes some choices first and the players can take it or leave it. But what would be best if CB finally learned to communicate with the playerbase about the changes they plan and helped people through them. These changes take a long time, nothing stops CB from announcing them earlier. Imagine it being done this way: "Listen, in two years we will retire sectorials X, Y, Z; their rosters won't be in the Army because we won't have resources to maintain them, but upon retirement we will release them as PDFs so you can play them as legacy armies. Maybe we will introduce some minor tweaks as a parting gift. Those miniatures for these armies which won't be in other sectorials are already/will soon be oop. If someone made a decision and purchase just recently - sorry, we know it might be disappointing, but you still have those two years to either enjoy this army or move to another one. And while we're at it, upon their retirement we'll also release an official proxy guide for those willing to do so, to make it easier to still use your minis". I imagine that some people would still be complaining, but I think both quantity and volume of said complains would be significantly lower. Bottom line is that what CB really needs to overhaul is not only their product line, but also their communication policy, because it's quite good at generating hype - it convinced me to give PanO another try, which is saying something - but much worse at actually communicating with playerbase. And another thing is that they do make major mistakes with their product line along the way. As @fari just said, saying that they need to cut down on the number or armies while releasing more of them can and will miff some people. Same goes for announcing the need to cut down number of SKUs, and then releasing a crapload of new units, many of which weren't really needed. Reinforcements were a hot mess, despite being sold as something well thought-out and extensively tested, which they were anything but; maybe N5 will overhaul them into something good, but I'll believe it when I'll see it. Bottom line 2, it's a company that makes products which I enjoy using, with degree of that enjoyment fluctuating over the years. As long as I enjoy it they do deserve my money. Some of the time they do deserve my trust, even if in limited, "wait and see, at some point they'll do it right", form. They do not deserve my devotion.
Given the comments I see from JSA and PanO, people want them. We can go to lengthy debate about it if you want, but kestrel is a superiorly reworked Acontecimento, so its a comeback of the old sectorial and people asked for it.
I've seen more people asking for a return of Neoterra and Acontecimento in a modern sculpt for miniatures still in the N1/N2 version, than for a new sectorial.
