N5 Speculation

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Brokenwolf, Aug 3, 2024.

  1. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    Messages:
    2,657
    Likes Received:
    4,889
    It makes sense indeed, but at the same time I'd say it is a far-reaching speculation, too.
    So, I wouldn't take it for granted - not untill I see it on the shelf...
     
  2. aylw

    aylw Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2018
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    14
    My #1 Hope is - Fireteams completely changed to work more like coordinated orders - no innate bonuses, no sixth sense, no +1B. Instead, unlimited coordinated orders for that team. Fireteams skew the game so much, are an ugly mechanic (design-wise, they don't fit the rest of the game), and limit the design space of the game. They even caused power creep, forcing unlinkable units to be more powerful on attack to compete, which had an unintended side effect of having 1B powerful ARO to become almost non-existent. But the chances of this happening I feel like are -1% - they let fireteams stay in the game too long :( .

    More likely, I think they'll strip out sixth sense. That rule is WAY too common because of fire teams, and really nerfs a lot of interesting builds.

    As for other speculation (i.e. wishlist that is at least plausible):

    MA - becomes a single skill that gives 2 rolls in cc, and take the highest (no chart). The CC bonus and negative will become unnested, and the POW will be part of the weapon.
    Guided - Becomes a 2 ammo alternative gun profile. Still strong, but no more spamming forever. This would line up with more of a 'signal change', as opposed to an actual significant nerf. Would also make them terrible at taking out ecm -6 TAGS.
    Fireteams no longer cancel frenzy and impetuous.
    Frenzy - happens immediately at end of order. That way people remember it.
    Parachutist / Drop Troops get a buff - Get a points discount, possibly increase Drop chance.
    Shock now works on HI - but only when they go into null state. Or better yet, Shock removed altogether.
    SMG loses dual ammo types - sidearm / cheap SMG is normal ammo, HI get AP one.
    Targeted - no longer gives -3 to Reset
     
    #302 aylw, Sep 4, 2024
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2024
    LaughinGod likes this.
  3. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,291
    Likes Received:
    1,974
    So your fix for fireteams being overpowered (they're not) is to buff fireteams further?

    Unlimited coordinated orders? I could do so many disgusting, vile, heinous things with that.
     
    Quiet Professional likes this.
  4. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    7,237
    Likes Received:
    6,553
    Regardless, how CB has handled it in N4 has gotten out of control. The proliferation of NWI + Shock Immune models has gotten ridiculous.
     
  5. StephanDahl

    StephanDahl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2022
    Messages:
    285
    Likes Received:
    469
    If CB sell the "starter box" with 2x3 troopers, terrain and markers, it makes sense to sell 3 trooper "essentials packs" with cards for each of the other (vanilla) factions. If those essentials packs don't have an overlap with other SKU's, they will also sell to veterans.
     
    Abrilete likes this.
  6. fari

    fari CRISTASOL, EL LIQUIDO DE LOS DIOSES

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    4,491
    Likes Received:
    5,074
    Fireteams were good, until mixed fireteams arrived for all armies
     
  7. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2017
    Messages:
    6,513
    Likes Received:
    12,158
    Agreed Fireteams been an unlimited Coordinated order would be an active turn endgame.
     
  8. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,243
    Likes Received:
    858
    This is just a nice feature.

    QoL is not only about adding the number, it is also about remembering that you have (or worse, that you had) a number to add to your dice. Players tend to forget.

    Also, knowing that CC21 is basically CC20 + Fat L2 simply feels better. Because we know Fat L2 on BS was strong. The new system make above-20 CC feels stronger by basically having something similar to Fatality (but sometime critting even on 2s, and 3s, etc.)

    Shotgun on BS21 also feels more like an accomplishment now with a Crit on 20 and 1. The current system where it crits on 19 and 20 is more bleh because 19 was already a hard to beat roll anyway.
     
    Brokenwolf likes this.
  9. fari

    fari CRISTASOL, EL LIQUIDO DE LOS DIOSES

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    4,491
    Likes Received:
    5,074
    Never knew a player that forgot to add a number when rolling above 20... Using the extra value to crit on low numbers doesnt feel good at all. Fatality always felt unfair to me. I rolled a one, but it's a critic, so FU. Critting at high numbers feels better, because is gonna be difficult anyway to beat, he deserve the crit if he rolled a 19. But rolling at 16 and be beaten by a critical 2 feels terribly bad and unfair
     
  10. Wizzy

    Wizzy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2018
    Messages:
    3,420
    Likes Received:
    8,187
    Brokenwolf and Cadwallon like this.
  11. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,281
    Likes Received:
    1,700
    "if the number of factions is too great, why introduce a sixth(!) Sectorial for PanOceania in this new pack?"
    The answer is obvious. Because Pano has always been a top seller. Its why MO is still around despite being a weaker sectorial than SAA or NCA. (IT SELLS A LOT)
     
    burlesford, LaughinGod and Brokenwolf like this.
  12. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2017
    Messages:
    6,513
    Likes Received:
    12,158
    Game was always roll equal or under not roll as high as you can, never the less Fatality is not the same situation as fatality added an extra critical chance without the stat been over 20, stats over 20 add extra critical chances but the stat is over 20.
     
    Errhile likes this.
  13. fari

    fari CRISTASOL, EL LIQUIDO DE LOS DIOSES

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    4,491
    Likes Received:
    5,074
    i dont get what that response has to do with my post, but im not a native speaker...
     
  14. Sungwon

    Sungwon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2018
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    146
    It's pretty easy to forget for players who don't CC very often as they usually don't roll over 20. The difference between the old fatality L2 and new stats over 20 is that the fatality L2 had failure cases (like on 20 or 19) but increased critical chance. I haven't calculated but guess that would change the odds pretty much.

    Critting on high rolls were less exciting as the high rolls usually win against opponents. On the other hand, with the new system, the low rolls, which could be a loss against opponent, becomes crit and win higher opponent's rolls. I think this would be more exciting for the high stat players and make them feel worth for that high stats.
     
    A Mão Esquerda likes this.
  15. fari

    fari CRISTASOL, EL LIQUIDO DE LOS DIOSES

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    4,491
    Likes Received:
    5,074
    I think it will be frustrating for players. If i roll a 19, as you are saying, you probably you are not winning against that roll, so it doesnt matter if it's a crit or not. But rolling high, without failing, and be beaten by a critical 2, is not right, is't simply frustrating. If we both rolled high and yours is critical because you have greater stats, it's ok. But if i roll high and you roll low and you won because now greater stats make low rolls crit, it doesnt feel right, and you cant convince me it does.
     
    LaughinGod likes this.
  16. Sungwon

    Sungwon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2018
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    146
    You make your opponent's cc to 2 with mods (14 to surprise -3 and cc-3 and whatever combination possible) and they win with crit 2.
    Your opponent's cc is 24 and they win with crit 2.
    Both case you lose your high roll to your opponent's roll 2. Nothing is different except their stats. This is not a problem of right or wrong. YOU just FEEL it isn't right. If you are frustrated by losing with high rolls(like 15 or 17) against opponent's low but crit roll(2, 3, whatever), you must haven't played Infinity enough:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:.
     
    A Mão Esquerda likes this.
  17. fari

    fari CRISTASOL, EL LIQUIDO DE LOS DIOSES

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    4,491
    Likes Received:
    5,074
    if you crit me with a 2, because you are rolling at 2s, it's ok, shit happens (typical total reaction bot at point blank with surprise and camo applied).

    Is having above 20 stats and make low numbers crit with is bad. Or in case of old Tarik and Seskin, rolling for 15+ and make 1s crits.

    I suppose 12 years of playing this game is not enough...

    And yes, this is all about feelings. Make the players feel good or bad playing the game and make it sure it doesnt fell unfair at any point. And make low rolls crit when you have high stats feels wrong.
     
    #317 fari, Sep 5, 2024
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2024
    LaughinGod and Tristan228 like this.
  18. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    3,479
    Likes Received:
    4,271
    However, having a stat above 20 and still losing to a mook because you rolled low is also a feel bad. The new system makes it less likely for the unit with high CC to lose versus a unit with ‘meh’ CC.
     
    burlesford likes this.
  19. Sungwon

    Sungwon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2018
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    146
    Old Fatailty L2 is totally different from the case here as it was a skill that directly increases the critical chance so I don't want to talk about that here. A frustrating case in old rule is your mook rolls 8 against high CC character's 7 but you lose because of addition from 20+ stats. Rolled high but lost to low roll even not a crit. New rule seems more clear and straight forward for me. No addition, just compare the value, and 1 to X are additional crits if your target value is 2X. What you feel wrong doesn't mean it is wrong. Please wake up from the old nightmare of Fatality L2.
     
    Delta57Dash likes this.
  20. iKon

    iKon Not Very Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2018
    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    226
    I think its actually going to be better for the Close Combat master trooper.

    lets just take a Shaolin vs a Fusilier
    Monk has cc 23 and martial arts 3 vs CC 13
    the modified roll becomes 26 vs 10 thanks to Martial arts.

    In either system the Fusilier can only win by rolling 8,9 and crits on 10 there is no way the monk can not win the face to face on any other number from the fusilier.

    What does change in the new system is that if the Monk rolls low and the fusilier crits then its a draw instead of a loss to the monk.
    The probabilities are unchanged and less math is required.

    Ignoring Crits in the current system the monk can only lose by rolling a 1,2,3 and in the new system a 7,8,9 if the fusilier crits on 10 both systems have the same number of crit chances for the monk.
     
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation