em no.... In the fluff when PanOcenia made the jump from manned TAGs to the current Remote Presence TAGs, their entire "lizard" line of TAGs was sold as military surplus the main buyer of the entire obsolete line of ex PanOceania TAGs were the Nomads nation who upgraded them to their current format. Nomads fluff wise have a lot of TAGs because they bought the entire catalogue of manned PanOcenia TAGs.
Which all means little to a person who could care less about the the background. There are plenty of players like that. They only see some factions being treated differently. They just like playing a good game with cool robots and kick ass. They just see three factions that gets all the cool TAGs so they are the fun ones to play while the rest get an FU. Nomads and Combined are not top selling factions just because they look cool. Background can change with a sentence by a writer. Most of the Infinity background is even written as everyone being an "unreliable narrator". News articles, reports, etc where the writer will not have knowledge, make propaganda, or outright lie. Everything said about them buying PanO TAGs could be an absolute lie. I don't know if that's the case here but that's what it could be. Also that background still doesn't explain why the second largest economy with a large standing army doesn't have more than 2 TAGs while what amounts to maybe three cities in space, great engineers or not, have 6 TAGs that are just as good or better than Yu Jing. And I'm sorry but Refurb is never better than new. I don't care that they bought every single old one they had. It should still not be the amount that YJ has now. I'm an old time comic reader. I know how a writer can change things to what they want. My favorite comic super team (The Legion of Super-Heroes) has been re-started from scratch 3 times! #TAGEqualityNOW!
And this is why I do not care about any western superhero comics, yes, I do understand that there are people who could not care less about background, but Infinity has a deep lore and nuanced background and makes sure to keep it constant and consistent, as any proper IP should. PanOceania always had a lot of TAG types Nomads bought an entire line of old PanO TAGs got a lot of TAG types.
Again you are using story to justify something that I could care less about. I was trying to point out how a writer can change anything at any time they want. They just need to write a paragraph about how ISS commissioned the creation of a TAG after their failure with the separation of JSA traitors.
Obviously what you do not care about is what is fundamental in Infinity universe and IP, the fluff, there may be a few outliers who do not care about the universe they play with the units the politics and the fictional realities of the universe but these are the fundamentals the game, the world and the system are based in. The question is not if Yu Jing can have another TAG, they can, your question was why Nomads have so many TAGs and I answered you that, if nothing else if they did not have that many variances of TAGs the entire fluff would make no sense.
If fluff were fundamental, it would be front and centre far more. As it is, we players have to dig through ancient obsolete rule books and RPG pamphlets for an entirely different game system to access it (or watch Warlore's amazing videos <3) Excellent core game design and superb mini releases are core to Infinity, not lore that is weirdly silo'd away. It's one of my big gripes with Infinity, actually; it needs a complete refresh in its approach to lore. Infinity succeeds despite its lore publishing, not because of it.
You have better access in Infinity to fluff, in my opinion, than any other gaming company out there. I have encountered this complain a lot recently for some reason and each person had to concede after searching that whatever company they thought of as giving better and free access to their lore was not really the case. In the end how do you think the superb mini design comes from is Infinity did not have an extensive lore behind it?
The reason Nomads have so many TAGs is not fluff reasons. It's $. I can't fault them for that. They sell very well. They look cool and they kick ass on the table. Next will be JSA. They already equal YJ in number of TAGs and I fully expect them to get more within a few years. They even got two TAGs in months of each other. How many years was it before YJ finally got the Blue Wolf?
What I would like to see changed, is: - something that would made the Bao`s playable (maybe just give up on the whole biovisor idea anyway?); - something, that would make Yan Huo`s more playable (as the power creep has significantly creeped forward and left them behind). Bioimmunity changes nothing for them; - something that would make Sun Tze more playable (seriously, that is the guy who made me chose Yu Jing as my primary army all those years ago, and I can hardly ever justify fielding him. What is the point of him having total immunity anyway?); - new models for the Long Ya (that is my 100% subjective opinion, but they look just horrible ;)); - perhaps a price decrease for Hulangs? I really want to field them, but hardly ever actually manage to do it; - something that would make Crane Rank Agents better - I cant a proper niche for them, and the fluff (and miniatures) are great. What I think we do not need, is another TAG. Who needs more TAGs, when we have Heavy Infantry? ;)
By unashamedly basing them on popular figures from famous IP's that already have great designs, such as Cammy and Samus Aran in Torchlight Brigade? That's a joke (partially), but implicating that the lore behind the minis somehow impacts their physical design quality is laughably disingenuous. CB has had bad models at times; trial and error, combined with the blood sweat and tears of the guys making the models over so many years of designs and redesigns, that makes the mini design what it is today. The lore has, relatively, nothing to do with it.
Nomads had most of these TAGs from first edition when there were no models for them, the fluff is also from back then. and yes Blue Wolfs were mentioned from 1st edition and appeared when Yu Jing got their white banner army (finally). Geckos appeared when PanO got their Stingray Tags. You do know that fluff of the units is made before stats and loadout is done, concept art is done after that models are done after than and finally artwork.
Of course, with the caveat that occasionally the stats and loadouts get changed due to balance concerns or design departure from the original concept. That still doesn't have anything to do with the quality of the models themselves.
If you think the base everything stand on has no impact on the final product you have on your hand, you are mistaken.
I think YJ has less to worry about from Nomad TAGs and more from Nomad HI. Hopefully the near-universal consensus that Frenzy and other common discount skills/weapons do far too little for their cost gets reflected in the formula or rules, as YJ's stable starts looking a lot better if the points for a Zuyong go down some and the points for a Grrl or Cenobite go up. I do think the solid but not top-tier lineup of Nomad TAGs makes sense; they're supposed to be good engineers working with scrounged tech, so they're all working with average BS and standard weapons but with a few neat secondary skills or tools. The Gator goes a bit too far IMO, but otherwise it's fine. YJ has always expressed itself through versatile, tough units that can adapt to an enemy's weaknesses, alongside lacklustre support units- very much an aggressive counterpunch army. Its main predators against its design space are honestly over-mixed links and over-capable Characters; the Unknown Ranger and a fair chunk of SP do everything Yu Jing offers.
They also have the lowest population of all factions but I don't see their troops costing more or being more limited; they don't have the best industry/economics yet they have access to every tech upgrade under the sun, etc, etc... Your excuses are as outlandish as ever, and the bottom point is a game (specially if you want it to be competitive) has to be BALANCED, no matter if you have a super Mary Sue faction cherished by the writers in the lore. And if you want to talk fluff, can we talk about Dao Fei, the Tactical Section of the Invincible Army?
And your point been? a limited high end industry can support easier a smaller and well funded military force than what a really well developed and advanced industry can support an army that spawns through several star systems. It is not a question if PanOceania and Yu Jing could produce an equal or better equipped regular force than Nomads, its a question of if they can do so without bankrupting themselves, besides Nomads regular forces are not better equipped than what most nations are, some elite specialized formations are usually better equipped (but usually better trained not equipped) for the niche role they occupy.
Benkei may have been rather rude, but has a point. Nomads are given nothing but strengths from their fluff these days, while the in-setting powers still struggle with an army lacking in specialised units and assymmetrical options. And before anyone brings up how the Nomad options replicating anyone else's strengths are inefficient, feel free to explain why everybody else doesn't get a top-tier UPGRADE Pitcher Hacker at a points premium to match. On the other hand, you've got a point too- only the points have to be balanced; I'm pretty sure a Veteran Kazak is more valuable to Ariadna than a Swiss Guard twice its cost is to PanO. It's always been an uphill battle for most factions trying to punch up into the superpowers. The Tactical Homelessness Section? Trained for years to drift unarmed through their own country with no support base? Why bring up that, of all things?
Because some keep trying to use background to justify rules in the game. Dao Fei background says in the second sentence they are "The Tactical Section of the Invincible Army combines training in infiltration techniques with the standard Heavy Infantry program." At yet they are NOT in the Invincible army. It shows that CB will ignore or change background to suit their needs.
To be honest, I really hope for some love to Yu Jing from CB. Because I feel, how they are focused on JSA. At least give more units to form pure links in Invincible army. Their main feature was not only an armor, but training. And I guess, it fits well for some haidao to keep link pure, I guess. Or something like that. Anyway. Sometime I just want to ask not to make harm and keep things as they are x)
Firstly, replying without quoting does not ping the person you are responding to. Please be sure to do that in the future, as to ensure the other party is notified of your response and can reply accordingly. Secondly, counterpoint: Age of Sigmar, with terrible lore and some utterly incredible miniatures. Just look at the new Skaven line. Absolutely gorgeous models with an absolute catastrophe of lore. Thirdly: as others in this thread have mentioned, CB is perfectly happy bending and twisting the lore whenever they want, with the glaring example of the Dao Fei. Or the Sphinx, which is specifically mentioned in the lore as being completely silent as well as invisible, but does not possess the "Stealth" trait.
