N5 Speculation

JSA player here

- Tankos are an steal and behave amazingly well in a coordinate order. 2 or 3 tankos of any loadout along a Keitsotzu Missile Launcher or a Ryuken-9 HRL or MULTI Sniper Ninja will do the trick.
- You have no AD, but you have the most reliable superior infiltrators with Marker State of the game. Shove a Oniwaban / Shinobu into the other members of the fireteam, template the targets or even just FtF the ARO piece in CC combat. B1 CC 27 or B2 CC 28 kills things, even when they shoot you back at B2 with its pistol ignoring your MIM -6, mind you’re still applying the -3 of MA to them.
- KHD Aragoto is a disposable, cheap, IMP maker state that happens to have a Shotgun and a combi rifle. Apply force accordingly.
- You have not one but 2 different TAGs with a decent BS and a Heavy Machine Gun (AP). You can and will definitely brute force the FtF.
- JSA can play the guided game. You happen to have FO ninjas in marker state and FO Karakuris. If you move the FO Ninja Marker up the table and they declare ‘discover’ you can and will definitely put a nice Targeted state on the ARO piece. If they do not discover… apply ninja CC / shoot with MIM-6 into the other members of the fireteam out of LoS of the ARO piece.
- B2 Lu Duan Heavy Flame Thrower is a “I can not risk not choosing Dodge” for the fireteam, and he is a marker state troop. Position him well and you are forcing dodges into the fireteam and burning anyone who fails the dodge.
- Cautious Move with MOV 6 is a thing. Specially if the piece has Climbing Plus. And if such piece happens to have Foward Deployment and Super Jump you really really have to have an specially bad terrain setup if he can not find a path that put him in your Enemy Deployment Zone without being shoot at by the linked ARO piece. Shikamis exists.
- If the ARO piece is not in a hard to reach building -> Karakuri Haris with a MK15 declares Move, stay into the corner with in LoF of the ARO piece, while the linked Domaru Moves his full MOV 6 in a straight line of the ARO piece. The ARO piece must now choose to FtF the Karakuri, who with 3 STR and REM PRESS is NOT going to die, leaving him exposed to a Berseking Domaru in the next order, or shoot the Domaru, accepting to facetank a B4 MK15.

I am not a CHA player. But I am sure that similar ‘solutions’ can be found to deal with the linked MSV ARO piece.

 

The problem is, all of you are proposing especific ideas, usually not aplicable in an standard tournament where i dont know who im facing next. I cant fit a TAG, oniwaban, ninjas, HRL ryukens, karakuri haris, core with ML and several other units in a single list.

The only thing a MSV linked guy has to do, is sitting on a roof, simply existing, and shoot everything he sees. If i want to counter or eliminate that guy, is infinite more difficult than just, exist and shoot. Or being lucky to have the right tool at the right moment via list building

 

No.

You have been proposed a plethora of solutions. Especially by @Rabble above, who has given you a list of solutions adequate fro your JSA force.
You don't have to have all the tools from the list. You need to have one, maybe two. And know how to use exactly the ones you've brought with you. And having White Noise, or Albedo, or "chaff grenades", or Eclipse Smoke wouldn't change that one slightest bit: you'd still need to have the specific unit with these in your list.

Because it matters not what is in your faction's arsenal if you haven't brought it to the table today. Out in the woods, a Swiss Army Knife in your pocket beats the full set of woodworking tools you have back at home.

 

Sure, dismissing each of the dozen of valid potential solutions to your issue is the way to go to improve and stop loosing... In addition of being slightly irrespectful to the people who spent time to write very detailled explanations to help you, even giving you very specifics examples for your army. For what it's worth, I'm also a JSA player and I use some of these tricks to deal with 5-men FT, including MSV ones, and they work. Try them.

You're being of bad faith here, no one is telling you should have EVERY tool in your list. Of course you cannot have every single tool to counter every single threat. But if you know that you are struggling with 5-men MSV FT, you should have a main solution and a backup solution, which you can perfectly fit in a list, along with every single else you need. For example Oniwaban + HMG Sokorentai, which leaves you with 206 points to add everything else you need (not even counting that Oniwaban and Sokorentai have of course a hundred other potential uses than just hurting FTs)

To be this efficient, this MSV linked guy has to be with 4 other folks, ending up eating a third or half the points of your opponent, sitting in his deployment zone doing nothing. And as soon as 1 or 2 of these folks die, it looses most of its power and becomes way less efficient.
And you don't have to rely on luck to have "the right tool at the right moment" because you specifically and thoughtfully covered that during list building. If you start the game and you can't deal with a threat you are expecting and fearing, don't blame the game, blame yourself and your poor list building.

EDIT : seems like Errhile was 4 mn faster than me

 

yeah, half the points of the lists...



──────────────────────────────────────────────────

5
FUSILIER (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10)
FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10)
FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10)
FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10)
KAMAU (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 32)

1.5 SWC | 72 Points

Open in Infinity Army


──────────────────────────────────────────────────

5
KEISOTSU (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 9)
KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 9)
KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 9)
KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 9)
BRAWLER (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 27)

2 SWC | 63 Points

Open in Infinity Army



──────────────────────────────────────────────────

5
MODERATOR (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 9)
MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 9)
MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 9)
MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 9)
RIOT GRRL Missile Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 32)

1.5 SWC | 68 Points

Open in Infinity Army


──────────────────────────────────────────────────

5
FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10)
FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10)
FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10)
FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10)
KARHU Feuerbach(+1B), AP Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 35)

1.5 SWC | 75 Points

Open in Infinity Army

 

Maybe you want to discuss this in another thread? Last three pages are about "how cha and jsa remove ARO pieces" where N5 stuff?

 

Generic BS 14 TAG vs pure core Fusi ML

Active (0.73 wounds / order):
Wins F2F: 56.8%
Causes 1+ wounds: 45.6%,
Causes 2+ wounds: 21.0%,
Causes 3+ wounds: 6.2%
Failure:
No wounds caused: 28.6%
(11.1% chance active player causes no wounds)
(9.8% chance reactive player causes no wounds)
Reactive (0.41 wounds / order):
Wins F2F: 35.6%
Causes 1+ wounds: 25.8%,
Causes 2+ wounds: 11.5%,
Causes 3+ wounds: 3.3%
​

Generic BS 14 TAG vs impure core Kamau MSR (AP mode gives higher wounds per order for reactive player)

Active (0.56 wounds / order):
Wins F2F: 46.3%
Causes 1+ wounds: 36.7%,
Causes 2+ wounds: 15.7%,
Causes 3+ wounds: 3.9%
Failure:
No wounds caused: 40.0%
(9.6% chance active player causes no wounds)
(23.3% chance reactive player causes no wounds)
Reactive (0.27 wounds / order):
Wins F2F: 46.6%
Causes 1+ wounds: 23.3%,
Causes 2+ wounds: 3.4%,
Causes 3+ wounds: 0.2%
​

Generic BS 14 TAG vs impure core RG ML

Active (0.75 wounds / order):
Wins F2F: 62.5%
Causes 1+ wounds: 48.1%,
Causes 2+ wounds: 21.0%,
Causes 3+ wounds: 6.0%
Failure:
No wounds caused: 28.8%
(14.4% chance active player causes no wounds)
(6.3% chance reactive player causes no wounds)
Reactive (0.39 wounds / order):
Wins F2F: 29.4%
Causes 1+ wounds: 23.1%,
Causes 2+ wounds: 11.7%,
Causes 3+ wounds: 3.8%
​

A generic BS 14 TAG absolutely has the capability to defeat most core linked AROs. MSRs are especially nonthreatening to them imo. Not all of these are the most efficient gunfights in the world, but they are all exceedingly safe for a 3 STR unit.

I would agree that there are some pure cores that are frustrating for certain factions to play against (pure core RG vs a faction without a top tier TAG/mim-6 HMG, pure core Kaitok FB/Suryat HRL vs factions without good GML access and/or IMPs/strong infiltrators), but I really do not think core linked AROs are an especially problematic part of the game from a larger pov. It's more that there are a few outliers.

 

ask CB, where's the N5 stuff?

 

Bostria was seen in Denver at the Krug tournament thus there'll be stuff. Also found this on the discord

NBW will only cancel Negative MODs, not the entire Skill.

Furthermore the terrain set:

 

Well, aren't you grasping at straws now?

None of the fireteams you've listed is a "Pure" Fireteam. Two aren't MSV L2-equipped - they're MSV L1, so while they can see through Smoke, they do it at -6. That is, unless you try trading fire with them and allow their 6th Sense to negate the modifier for Zero Visibility Zone.

Every single one of them relies on 4 cheap line troops to boost the MSV trooper.
Meaning that as long as you can stay out of LoS of the MSV trooper, your Mimetism would stay effective. A 5-man "Mixed" team's biggest benefit remains 6th Sense. However, the BS isn't going to be as high as with a "Pure" team, so winning a FtF firefight against them will be easier.


Really, you have the tools.
You have been pointed towards what these tools are and how to use them.

You really intend to die on this particular hill?

​

Hmm, interesting. So, the "MSV approach" towards CC.

A pity the photo is so bad, but the new terrain is something quite different from the 2gen one. Again, interesting :)
Also, if it is meant to represent the new planet, I sense desert vibes :P

 

Adding to this, I'm pretty sure a Keisotsu HMG hits even odds at beating the non-PanO iterations of those links without any further support, and you damn well should have something better than a Keisotsu for clearing ARO unless you're really into Ninja.

On topic- THANK GOD. NBW always felt bad to play against because it just invalidated the competencies of some of your coolest units. Now it protects its host from having their hits spoiled by PARA CCWs or Martial Arts, and gets around non-Martial Arts stat adjustments without turning Musashi into a Fusilier with a stacked CC stat. NBW might finally be cool!

 

Cleaner images from the Krug seminar:
















- Specifically talked about flying vehicles that can be remote presence drones or physically piloted.

 

Thank you for the clean pictures, I was going crazy with the blurry ones, liking the change to natural born warrior, now at least it doesn't trump everything in CC. Hope to see some other skills getting some touch ups like this one.

Also I noticed the Orc profile for multi rifle seems cheaper, 28 points vs 31, would be interested if we might see similar drops in MI and HI profiles.

 

I hope that silouethe will be a future JSA troop

I dont know if i like or dislike flying vehicles and drones. I hope they are like the old meteor with the plastic peg, and no the modern one with tactical debris

And the helldivers fever has gone too far. We want to simplify the game, but let's add a totally new mechanic and add more randomess to the game

 

Nah, I love panoplies and booty. Spend a command token to get some booty sounds like a good time to me!

 

I see ORC is cheaper in N5, so another edition where MI will be useless ?

 

Have you seen any N5 Medium Infantry writeup?
If so, do share it with the rest of us.

If not, then why the heck are you jumping to conclusions so gorram fast?​

 

I play this game for 10 years now. Some things never change. I prefer not to be optimistic, that way I don't get disappointed.
Also there was a question mark at the end, that means it was a question not a claim. You attacked me like I was making unfounded claim.

 

I don't want to count right now for how long I'm playing this game. Been a while.

I'm not being optimistic about N5, but I'm not being pessimistic either. Once it is there, we will see it.

Edit: Shrodinger's Cat, as an afterthought, seems a decent mental model.
It isn't dead.
It isn't alive.
We have to wait till the box is opened to determine.