I'll toss my hat in the ring! Bao Troop - Remove MSV2, Remove MSR, Remove or make Biometric Visor free; add Nanoscreen (Riot Shields), NWI, Riotstoppers, Stun Grenades, and close range weapons/specialist options. In their lore blurb Bao Troop are close assault doorkickers excelling in CQB and room-clearing operations. Make them the second wave after a Kuang Shi assault, or the professional SWAT team you call in when you need the guy alive at the end, but still with extreme prejudice. Crane Agent - 6-2 MOV, Dodge+3, Climbing Plus/Superjump; I love Crane Agents, make them the rabid hunters that they are feared for. The Hsien already fills the role of Long/Mid range gunfighter, I want the Crane Agent scaling rooftops and cutting enemies of the state down up close and personal. Karen- return Sniffers, or maybe DepRep/Nullifiers to their minelayer profiles. I really don't know what to do with these guys, I quite frankly love them so that's just me longing for the days when I could make sure I'd sniffed out those trying to hide from YJ's glory. Wu Ming - Gain Dogged and Frenzy; Wu Ming are in a rough spot, they're meant to be outdated armor systems but you pay too much compared to the newer armor systems the other HI are wearing. Dogged and Frenzy gives them a small leg up that incentivizes risky play in the hopes they earn their name back or finally are free from a life of service via death. Add Yaofang Long Ya or their equivalent. You're telling me a police state doesn't have little listening drones just lying in wait in known hot spots? That leads me into my last wishlist... More Aleph support! I've always loved that IS had so many integrated Aleph models, it really showed you how entrenched the AI was in everyday life in YJ. IS is rough because it has so many great attack pieces but no real defense against alpha strikers, so some of the more defensive oriented Aleph pieces would help greatly to shore up that weakness. It does appear baked in, but if CBs stated goal is to move forward with more updates like Bakunin, JSA, and Torchlight then I think baked in weaknesses will be a thing of the past.
I think Bao would be just as good and maybe cheaper of they changed MSV2 to 1 instead. We don't know if BV is going to change with N5. It would be good if it just treats IMP1 as if it's 2. I think I agree about the MSR. It's been around for a long time but there's other maybe better MSR in the faction. I'd like to see Multi-Marksman, Spitfire, Riotstoppers.
my humble opinion of changes: Yan Huo: add marksmanship, add a profile with e/m grenade launcher +1 burst Daofei: reduction cost + add a profile with hmg Guijia: For better represent the name ''tortoise shell'' I would remove martial arts L2 and super jump for add total immunity. Su Jian: change heavy shotgun in vulkan shotgun Sun Tze: add lieutenant +1 order Sun Tze V2: add +1 W Kanren: remove holoprojector, add impersonation Hulang: add camouflage Bao Troops: add hidden deployment Tai Sheng: add a profile with hmg or spitfire Liu Xing: change combat jump (explosion) in parachutist (dep. zone) Ye Mao: add camouflage (1 Use) Adil Mehmut: remove dodge (+3), sensor, triangulated fire, no wound incapacitation, change para cc weapon (-6) in E/M cc weapon, add impersonation Hsien: change multispectral visor L2 in multispectral visor L3 Lei Gong: add holoprojector, add chain of command in the profile that haven't it Qian Gao: change hmg in ap hmg, add total immunity Jing Qo; add a profile with camouflage Kunai Solution Ninjas: change actual range weapons in kunai/shuriken (throwing weapon - burst 4 - damage ph - max range 12) + exp cc weapon, add infiltration (+6) Chung Hee: add infiltration Hwarang: add berserk Sulsa Warriors: change camouflage (1 Use) in normal camouflage
We'd need to know more about any changes N5 itself might bring to really wishlist specific gear- if they go back to needing MSV2 to see through Smoke, for example, Bao would be even worse if they went down to MSV1! Meaningful changes to Biovisor could save the Bao by itself, it's a rare piece of kit that could easily give a niche to any unit that has it if it actually did something useful.
I miss the X-Visor on them. It's more useful than people think. Just look at how Druze can use it with Pitchers. With a pure team, they can shoot up to 16" on 15s and above that on 12s.
ISS really needs to be updated, lots of skills have become common everywhere except in ISS. Tac Awareness NCO improved hacking support from Pitchers or repeaters Fireteam reorganisation, there are very few wildcards Sun Tze could be linkable Killer Hacking device for Zhanying Kuang Shi don't have the opportunity to explode as often as in previous editions, give them berserk but leave them crap at CC do they can just be human bombs again There desperately needs to be profiles that can mask a holomasked Kanren because they are far too obvious for their points as it stands.
Yeah, I really love the Cranes, Bao and Pheasants. Would be great to see them come up a bit. VERY keen for the Cranes to get 6-2, and for Biometric Visor to get buffed for the Bao. Would it be OP to have Biometric allow a trooper to declare "Discover + Attack" as an ARO? Maybe. But it just feels totally useless on ARO - why would an Impersonator go anywhere near the Bao? It should be 360º Visor, perhaps, to allow the Bao to properly guard high value targets. And yes - bring back Sniffers! They were so thematic for ISS.
Agreed - NCO especially would be great. And I really do miss the Kuang Shi "Biomarker" or whatever it was called, where they could be used as a Targeted model for their own Guided Missiles. It may be grim (but any moreso than exploding?), and it may not come up too often, but it's damned hilarious and totally brings that ISS ethos to the tabletop. I like that Berserk idea...
I'd honestly be in favour of some unit pruning, though I'm not sure where to find the redundancy in yujing unlike some other factions. I'm sure there are a few that could simply become profiles in another unit. Oh and do something to make the Mowang a little more attractive.
I'd love a revamp of ISS and some of the wider YJ profiles but HI have been my first love and IA is what kept me with the faction. I just wish there was more consistency in design principles and CB figure out what they mean when they say IA are the HI faction: Does it mean the best HI units in the game? Not the case with most being ARM 3 BS13 4-4 and only rare examples of standouts. Does it mean cheapest (mass produced) HI? Definitely not when compared to a lot of the points-optimized HI profiles across the game and including the YJ CC tax. Also telling that I always take a Zanshi core in my IA. Does it mean we have the most similarly priced and statted HI options redundantly competing for the same roles? Seems to be a winner. Obviously a lot of this comes down to skill pricing and the Impetuous/Frenzy cheats. An almost heretical side note: as much as I love the AP HMG Shang Ji-sus, I almost wish they weren't so optimised (or the other expensive S/HI were optimised a bit more). I find it hard to justify other HI picks when Shang Ji-sus brings so much to the party. Hopefully now is the time to kill sacred cows. I'd happily have Zuyong lose the second true wound for NWI, CC wpn & tax, and strip the breaker pistol to become the budget HI of the game. Maybe even return to 4-4 if it made them cheaper. Fits the lore as an old model and would allow YJ to field a super cheap HI core. And, for the love of God, give Yan Huo at least Courage so it can act as the ARO unit it's designed to be. I'd personally prefer it to also have the +1 Dam to represent it carrying TAG weapons but eh.
Pretty much this. I also wrote that in some threads long forgotten ;-) Then give Zenchas their lost vita back. I find it very confusing that some HI has 6-2 and another 4-4 without a reason that springs to the eye. CB still refuse to communicate, why they do this or that. I can understand Wu Ming are 4-4 maybe because they got old armour suits. Maybe Zencha, because an Infiltrator HI should not be that fast (well Daofai is). Then Haido as a filler and wildcard unit from the beginning why he is slow? And - more important - why he doesn´t count as Zuyong/Shang? Crane Ranks - from their status they should have modern hi tech armour, but someone forgot the syncmuscle that enables wider strides. Also a good idea to take the B+1 away from the breaker pistols. And No. 2 can also go, for that we have Shangs. Shangs are the ones who are No.2 guys and should get a promotion to elite or veteran troops - it just not feels good, when they are "line troops".
but that is the entire fluff of HI Yu Jing, they have for basic Line Infantry what others have for veteran and elite troops.
Sure. That sounds great in the background but doesn't work well for playing the game. Also, as we know, background can change. They move the timeline years into the future. In which time troops can change. They say IA is the HI Sectoral. But is it? I guess that's true if you just count the number of HI in IA. But when it comes time to make a list with HI, you find out fast that you can't make a viable list with a lot of HI. Believe me, I've tried. You make lists with a lot of Zuyong and then find you are playing a mission that needs Elite and Veteran troops. Then you add the Elite, Vet, and Character troops are very few and very expensive (Hac Tao, Mo Wang, Hulang, Liu Xing, all the characters). If you want any of those troops, you can pretty much forget having mostly HI. You now need to take cheaper non-HI troops. Also those "cheaper" troops, are not that cheap and not that good. Then you find out you are playing Nomads. So then you want to have guys with Tinbots because you really don't feel like having all your army being bricked. So you need to take a tinbot troop who increases the cost even more. White Banner at least gained the REF troops that are Vet or Elite, so now they have more than IA! If IA is the HI army, then I think they should have some Elite/Veteran HI that's more than AVA1 or 2 and very expensive. Other factions have: Beta Troops (vet), Knight Hospitaller (Elite), Orc (vet), Evader (vet), Mobile Brigada (vet), Jujak (vet), etc.
I've found WB to be easier to run a 5 man pain train of 2W HI given their cheaper units like Liang Kai + 2 Monks and Long Ya to support orderwise. My 5 mans include at minimum 2 Shang-Ji while I pad out the rest depending on mission. Usually have 2 tactical awareness, but sometimes go with 3. While I like the idea of IA and some of its unit, always found it easier to build a HI core in WB.
To be fair, the lore blurb on the store for the Shang Ji states that only the Invicible Regiments with "Brilliant" records get Shang Ji armor; the normal regiments are stuck with the old Zuyong model. So it wouldn't be entirely out of line for Shang Ji to be classed as Veteran or Elite troops.
Yeah WB is far better at playing what used to be the IA game, the problem is that the game has moved on from when IA was a dominant HI faction. I've been playing against Torchlight Brigade a bit lately and they way they play is how I feel IA should play.
It would be nice if they made something that was YJ exclusive. I feel every time they make something that’s unique to YJ, they then make an equivalent in another faction. Sometime better, sometimes not. Examples: Su Jian -> Roadbot Zhencha -> Sombra, Strider Long Ya -> Moonrakers Liu Xing -> Taryot Hai Dao -> Evaders Zuyong -> Rovers Ye Mao -> Karhu
Honestly, if they just swapped the stats between Haidao and Zuyong and pruned some of the unnecessary skills/equipment to make the Zuyong a truly budget HI, IA would play so much better. No need for Frenzy cheats, just barebones Line Infantry HI to pad out the expensive specialist HI. With a basic stripped down Zuyong at ~20pts you could start doing some much more interesting fireteams. Hell, if we're dreaming and IA were allowed 2 Invincibles Haris, that would even be achievable.
Maybe fluffy, but helpful for Classifieds. True. Especialy with the new additions. Thats why TB is the better IA because they have cheaper order generators and this ones are well protected, while the humble Zhanshi only gets further away if he manged his dodge on 10. Intrestingly a TB don´t even need their Silvestar (Zuyong) because cheap as impetious in a fireteam HI an be Hellblazers are the way to build their core - while the premium overstar is capable of doing the shooting game on his own. No, it would be not. Because a promotion like that will also give them veteran status. So what about Yu Jing as the HI Faction? Its true. Yu Jing has three different basic HIs or cheap HIs (take that with a little bit salt (there is left something, but the main stock is sold to Pan O ;-)) One of them are veterans. When we take a look at the Human Sphere we found that every faction has a basic HI. Pan O has Orcs, Nomads Brigadas, Haq has Janissars and Yu Jing has Shang Jis. Ariadna still struggle with this theme and JSA (two month away of becoming a faction of its own) have Domaru what is in the same vain (and was also former YJ). All of these are roughly in the same price range, same battlefield role and nearly the same stats. But Yu Jing has for every sectorial its own basic HI: ISS has Wu Ming - very close to Shang but a bit worse in PH and BTS. Line Troops. One of the main differences here are the uncommon arms, like EM stuff, Mines, GL, Chain Rifle IA has Zuyong - more less Shang Ji light, mainly downgrade is PH 12 and ARM 3. Line Troops WB has the Jujaks - now that they are capable to form fireteams of their own they are fully operational. Basicaly Zuyongs that traded their TA for heavy flamethrowers but statwise Zuyongs. Funny thing - they are Veteran Troops! The main basic HI - the Shang Ji - are available to the two of three sectorials. Same like Orcs (4 of 5) or Jannis (2 of 3). So yes Yu Jing has a lot of (basic) HI and three of them are line troops and all of them shoot on 13 have HMGs (one Spit) as the main heavy weapon (one is AP shock) and ML/HRL as the main defense SWC weapon. Apart form some gimmicks they are nearly the same. Time to give them some flavor! As Shangs clearly shine between all the basic HI its time to promote them to elite or vetran - trade with the Jujaks if it has to be. I would like to see some TA on Jujaks, maybe even BS 12 on Zuyongs or Wu Mings if that makes them significant cheaper. Maybe a visor L1 here or there (Shang HRL). Immunity cont.dam. for Jujaks. Mines, Peremiter weapons ...
