Its not about comparing ISS and TB - its about "Nomad gets all what is good and more" - now replace Nomad vs TB and add but more premium and cheaper.
Nah, I think Nomads still get the most. TB has some great stuff. But Nomads still have more. Anyway, fingers crossed ISS gets an update this decade. It's too bad they didn't get any of the REF troops but I don't think they followed the look and feel of asian space cops anyway. The only thing I think that came close is the Dokkaebi.
More "weird" than "wonderful", but I thought it was cool that the ISS starter box plus miscellanous Aleph models already in the collection was a valid 300 pts list: https://infinitytheuniverse.com/army/list/gMoQaW1wZXJpYWwtc2VydmljZR1TdGF0ZUVtcGlyZSBJbnZlc3RpZ2F0aW9uIDMwMIEsAgEBAAYAbQEFAACAtwEBAACAtwECAACAuQEBAACAwAEBAACAwAEBAAIBAAkAgJcBBgAAgJQBBAAAfQECAAB6AQQAAICRAQkAAICRAQEAAICRAQEAAG0BCQAAgLcBBAA= Oh no, you reset the clock... I'm hoping for some cheap Hidden Deployment troopers (without infiltration) for ISS only; Nobody expects the StateEmpire Inquisition...
I think the ISS is ALWAYS expected lol. But I want Impersonation Kanren. I feel that if you are going to take hacker Deva, it’s good to put them into a core. A good hacker becomes great one with Sixth Sense.
Only just realised the Dakini/Deva haris doesn't have Deva as a requirement. I sort of like the look of: ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 3 DAKINI Heavy Machine Gun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 21) DAKINI Heavy Machine Gun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 21) DAKINI (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15) 2 SWC | 57 Points Open in Infinity Army
Can fit in every YJ sectorial - its a robot! Zhanying has 6th sense while walking alone. So Deva for active hacking is fine I think. Which is nice and flexible. But make sure you don´t put Lt. & CoC in one team.
Also Deva themselves. Good specialists with NWI. Not bad at all. ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 3 DEVA (Multispectral Visor L2) Spitfire, Nanopulser ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 33) DEVA (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 28) DEVA (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 26) 1.5 SWC | 87 Points Open in Infinity Army
It's amusing going through this thread and seeing a few of my favourite haris options haven't been called out. So here they are: This super cheap MMR hsien haris appears in most of my lists. Putting two really cheap units with the hsien means I'm not afraid to advance it up table, and they mostly offer additional burst, flank guards and a specialist button pusher for just 23 points more than the base hsien. Also works fine with two CSU, but I like my barbie and ken haris (see image). ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 3 HSIEN (Lieutenant) MULTI Marksman Rifle, Nanopulser ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (+1 | 53) CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 11) BOUNTY HUNTER Submachine Gun, Akrylat-Kanone / Breaker Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 12) 0 SWC | 76 Points Open in Infinity Army I'm currently playing around with Deva & Taowu, obviously smoke and a 2 wound msv2 spitfire can get work done! Then you have a burst four viral pistol OR burst 3 e/m templates to throw around the corner if you manage to advance on something expensive looking. It won't always work and Taowu is pretty obvious, but template santa can really deliver some great presents if he gets close. ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 3 DEVA (Multispectral Visor L2) Spitfire, Nanopulser ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 33) CELESTIAL GUARD Monitor Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 13) TÁOWÙ E/Marat, Flash Pulse / Viral Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 21) 1.5 SWC | 67 Points Open in Infinity Army Dakini MSR are the missing ingredient for ISS. The army lacks so badly for AP ammo at range, that these seem to be one of the ingredients that make it just about work for me. With a pangguling and sophotect supporting they can provide a lot of board control throughout the game. Also they give you something to spend the +1 SWC from the MMR hsien on without feeling like you're missing out, and at 20 points each they're pretty cheap for what they can do. ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 3 DAKINI MULTI Sniper Rifle / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1.5 | 20) DAKINI MULTI Sniper Rifle / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1.5 | 20) PHEASANT IMPERIAL AGENT (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, E/Mitter, Madtraps / Breaker Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 27) 3 SWC | 67 Points Open in Infinity Army Also, Miranda and Sforza are pretty good options in a law & order haris, I'm hoping to get a little more table time with them once I've painted them up.
This one is a nice niche that I would like to try next time I field ISS. Especialy when facing HI/TAGs. Hsien with two CSU is my favorite also. I prefer the CSU with metachemistry over bounty.
For me, it seems a waste to take a tinbot Hsien and not take a hacker. This would be fun on a day I’m feeling bombastic! ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 3 HSIEN (Lieutenant) MULTI Marksman Rifle, Nanopulser ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (+1 | 53) CRANE AGENT (Hacker, Hacking Device, Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser(+1B) ( ) / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0.5 | 46) CRANE AGENT (X Visor) Spitfire, Nanopulser(+1B) ( ) / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (1.5 | 49) 2 SWC | 148 Points Open in Infinity Army
Two Cranes seems like overkill, why not use the Zhanying Hacker instead for the sixth sense and save 21 points?
Well, if you're feeling like points are water today, the crane's cc ability and toughness are both fun to play with. Though to be fair, with the ability to taze people then tape d-charges to them, the zhanying is also pretty mean in cc!
Played another game with Taowu (aka Template Santa) yesterday evening, and managed to lock up an Anathematic with him. A couple of weeks ago I isolated two haris teams of an IA army with him. When he delivers those templates he can really get work done! What's good about the deva / smoke cg & taowu team, is that Taowu really encourages you play aggressively with the msv2 deva. On the way to template delivery... or if you screw it up, you have a really strong back up gunfighter. The Anathematic managed to reset out off IMM-B and isolated state (WIP 16... agh!) but the Deva actually dropped him with a good spitfire salvo followed by a nanopulser in the reactive turn. It's also a great feeling if you move a "celestial guard" inside someone's ZoC, they ARO dodge, and you get to say "but this model has stealth"...
Not to be overly pedantic and I guess this may depend on Meta but isn't the correct etiquette to declare that you are using stealth with the first move skill so they know that they can't ARO? Otherwise you are gaining the knowledge of what their ARO would be if they had one. this may be important in very niche situations like if you moved into the ZOC of a Hacker that was Holo-masked as a non hacker or a camo token or something.
Our meta may be fairly loose, but players don't always have every rule in mind when they declare something. Stealth is automatic, but optional, so if a model has it you use it unless you explicitly switch it off. Also we generally play that if revealed but not completely obvious public information would change an ARO, the declaring player has an opportunity to redeclare it. So yes, you're right... it would play out this way. YJ: "My celestial guard moves towards your anathematic." EI: "I declare dodge." YJ: "I forget to mention this celestial guard has stealth... you can't ARO yet." EI: "Huh, maybe that isn't a Celestial Guard." We certainly wouldn't grant a dodge ARO because declaration of a secret automatic skill wasn't made, stealth on the moving model means no ARO is granted at all. This plays out all the time in more common interactions. Player 1: "I move here" Player 2: "Maybe you didn't see, but if you go there this camo token can see you." Player 1: "Ok, I don't move that far out, I only wanted to see this guy and forgot that guy was even there." Table state is in the head of both players and you're cooperating with a little back and forth to make sure both players are aware of enough info to declare clear intentions in order. Sometimes hidden information could produce a gotcha moment, but this isn't really one of those.
That'll work until someone gets unintentionally baited into revealing private information. "Alright, my Taowu drops Holomask and dodges. What? You have Stealth?". They did make an FAQ for Marker states for this particular reason, but as is usually the case Holomask comes along and ruins perfectly good rules.
Those icky situations are unfortunately bound to happen. Hidden deployment is a real gotcha there, as you shouldn't have to declare your own Taowu as stealthy as soon as you move him, but he could move straight past a hidden model and trigger a ninja deploying as soon as he walks out of your DZ. At best, you'll call it out when you think you're moving within 8" of a trooper or repeater.
Stealth being an automatic optional skill does make Holo tricky. Technically it's the owning players responsibility to disclose all open information and for any troop that's on a printed courtesy list with stealth its safe to assume that they are using stealth unless the player specifies otherwise. However a trooper that is not on a courtesy list hasn't had all of its open information revealed so if a camo token moves you should probably specify that they are using stealth and if you don't declare the use of stealth and that causes a ARO declaration then you should probably not be able to retroactively apply stealth. As the reactive player I would probably be extra careful before declaring an ARO in that situation so before my ARO I would ask "did that camo use stealth?" so I don't give away my hiding ninja. In my view if I holo a trooper with stealth and move it without declaring stealth then if wasn't using stealth in order to maintain the ruse. Just like if I was a 4-4 trooper masked as a 6-2 I might try to move 4 for the first move subtly and then very deliberately move 2 as the second move because the moment I move 4 as the second move the jig is up. Technically the use of Stealth is open information though so if you do move Taowu at all then you probably give it away because the opponent knows you have Taowu because you had countermeasures at the start of the game. If you have to be asked each order if that trooper is using stealth this order then you are being "that guy"
