What interests me the most are the 'ok' elite single wounders. Stuff that isn't bad, but also isn't super good either. Like Bagh-Mari - they are fine with mim+MSV, decent to good weapons, ok link teams, some nice flair with minelayer on the MSR - but they aren't crazy cost effective 1W gunfighters like Karhu or Knauf. Sekban are... okaaaay. 360 visor is not an especially useful piece of equipment by my measure, but they've got the HRL profile which is decent when linked - and the new 2xBurtuk+2xHafza+1xSekban fireteam which is def not bad. NCO is also nice, although taking multiple always feels rough to me - I don't like paying for redundant NCO. But they don't have as much utility as units which occupy a similar lane like Vindoq or the Exrah Exo.
The Sekban's design is old, sure, but I still think that when it comes to MI, you could do worse. Yes, 360°-visor is too situational for what it costs, but the combination of NCO plus their decent stat line makes it worthwhile to bring at least one. I wouldn't use them as shooters, though. BS13 on its own without vis mods isn't that great. But the Doctor can comfortably slot into an Azra'il haris, giving you something to pick up the big boy should he go down, providing you with close assault defense with its BSG, giving you a chance to use the Lt order from your (hopefully) well-hidden Hafza or Ghulam Lt, and in addition, being quite the competent classified piece (MI, NCO, Doctor). For under 30pts that's something I'd definitely consider.
I would love the Sekban to get an Engineer profile and allow the doctor to have the AP Rifle/Light Shotgun loadout. I feel that would give them more flexibility.
My problem with Sekban is that they cost quite a lot of points but aren't good at shooting and have 1W That they all come with NCO is not good imo... I only need one! 360 visors are hugely overcosted. There are other cheaper specialist options and the SWC choices have no BS Attack skills! There's nothing good happening here and it's not controversial to say so.
I'd say that great link options is like... can they slot easily into links with other good or cheap units that fulfil useful roles? Karrhu absolutely can.
BS 13 is "not good at shooting"? In-sectorial, they are on par with some HI (Azra'il and Mobile Brigada). IIRC, only Janissaries and the Iguana are better. BS attack skills on SWC options would make them more expensive, so I'll stick to a 21pts HRL, thank you. Not to mention you have the choice of AP on non-SWC weapons, Shock on Red Fury and Contionus Template on the HRL. You need only one NCO? Fine by me, but which one? 360-visors, you say, are hugely overcosted... and how much do they cost, exactly?
Which tells you more about how bad QK is at shooting than how good Sekban are. I agree with Solar here, BS13 without vis mods isn't good enough to make it a good shooter. A decent shooter, maybe. But if I go down to BS10 as soon as someone has Mimetism (or, God forsake, is a Myrmidon) and don't have Mimetism or anything else myself, I wouldn't call myself a great shot. Which is why, sadly, Djanbazan are kind of your best shooters in the faction, and that is at BS12. Not great if you ask me (yes, you could push them up to BS15 with Hafzas, but... do you want to?).
Or is further away than your +0 distance. Or is in Cover. Or there's yet some other reason why you're suffering a -3 to hit modifier (or several of them), for example Suppressive Fire. Yes, MSV, X-visor and Marksmanship do negate this or that modifier, but they count for that one and that one modifier only. Good BS gets into the equation always. I actually usually do. When I'm fielding the Djanbazan. And it is not in every game when I play QK.
I don't see it as a problem. That's how Haqq has been designed: we don't excel at straight BS. PanO was designed as the faction who excels at straight BS. The topic with people wishing for it to be somethign else is longer than both my arms. ...I guess I'm losing my patience. I should get to bed.
Yes, Haqq doesn't shoot as well as other factions, but you still have better gunfighting than Sekban or Djanbazan. Mukhtar, Bokhtar, Zhayedan, Khawarij Mk12, Yara Haddad. It's just that QK doesn't get any of those. And compared to them, Sekban are just decent, not great. I never said they're bad, mind you.
Yeah, Haqq doesn't have apex shooters. But N4 blessed us in the shooting department. We got a few excellent shooters and greater BS increases in N4, even thought shooting is not supposed to be our strength. Seriously, in N4: Muyibs got BS 13 Jannisaries got BS 14 We got three new Minimism -3, BS13 shooters (Muktars, hortaks, and now Bokhtars). Sekban being BS 13 is fine. They just need some more profile flexibility. And I really, really miss the assault Pistol on the HRL.
I agree that Haqq shooting is a lot better than what I understand it was like in N3, but I also think the changes to the game going from N3 to N4 (lower max model count, TAGs becoming better, overall greater emphasis on aggressiveness) kinda meant that Haqq's shooting needed to be better than what it was in N3. In my book, Haqq's shooting rn is fine - consisting for the most part of very cost effective and specialized shooters. The big thing we lack is a universal rambo ala a Hac Tao or Szally. But I'm not sure I'd agree that Muyibs, Sekban and (Hortlak) Janns are the units I'd use when talking about how Haqq's shooting can work. For the Muyibs and Sekban, a base BS13 HRL... it can get some stuff done when linked up for the extra burst - units like the Stigmata and the unlinked Haetae demonstrate the power of B3 HRLs even without vis mods/visors, but those are units that have the durability to afford losing an F2F once or twice - Sekban and Muyibs do not have that kind of durability. The Sekban does have access to the decent looking Burtuk-Hafza-Sekban pure core, but the Bahram pure core in HB imo is not especially competitive - it's very expensive for being comprised of squishy and not especially punchy 1Wers. Hortlaks have some fantastic shooting skills, but are let down by poor weapons and fireteams. Unlinked, a B2 AP Sniper is just not gonna do enough for you - and they need to be chained to the infamously expensive and unimpressive Janissary fireteam in Ramah if they wanna get up to B3. Janissaries themselves are ok on paper, but just kinda lack something like C+ on the WinterFor Orcs or the Tac-Aware, AP and TinBot of Shang-Jesus that make them compelling packages. It's just a bit too expensive for how vanilla it is, and the full pure core in RTF is way too expensive for it's lack of utility and vulnerability to hacking. In QK I have heard of Janns having a bit more play thanks to Hafza as cheap filler, but I'm yet to see it on the table myself. When I think about the standout units of Haqq shooting, I think about units like the Mukhtar (incredibly efficient at clearing chaff and non-HI AROs), the Azra'il (incredible armor buster), the Asawira (very cost effective stat stick), the Sunduqbut (interesting and incredibly lethal tech-piece) and the Bokhtar (supremely mobile HI and parachutist Mukhtar basically). Units that all have a very specific niche, and are for the most part very cost effective. I don't think (non-pure core) Sekban, Hortlaks, Janns and Muyibs fall into that category right now.
