I perfectly understood what you said. And it is wrong, as it was proven to you multiple times. Get over it. And go play some games with good players, it'll give you a better overview of the state of the game.
BTT I also wonder why some HI is 4-4 and another 6-2. I don´t care much, how their pre N4 Mov value was. I also would like to see more consistency in the Mov value of HIs. Its not the ARM. While Mobile Brigadas are still mobile and sport a hefty ARM 5 (whyever, I think they throw dices as they give the "standard" HIs some extra buff with N4. Janissars are BS 14 in faction that never was known for HI BS and Nomads are never known as the hight ARM faction. Thats more YJ turf, if any. An example before: Mobility armour for Jean is only ARM 3 while others move around with ARM 5 (6 for Achilles, but he is Achilles), while some HI has ARM 4 and slow down on 4-4. There was never a explanation - nerver rules- nor fluff-wise. It would be nice to have something like: Ah HI! Its Mov 6-2 with some very, very few exception. Lets take a closer look to Yu Jing - the power armour faction: Bixie - sure, fast moving is her thing from Aristeia - 6-2 Qiang Gao - Zuyong armour, perhaps a special one for his big frame and duty on the Defiance with ARM 4 over the normal Zuyongs still 6-2 Daofei - Camo HI needs fast movement 6-2 Dokkaebi - Robotech HI 6-2 Hac Tao - elite of the elite HI tech includes optical distrubtor - 6-2 Heatae - bulky S5 HI (whyever) the build not so powerful servo muscles with a poor PH of 12 it can only 4-4 (maybe tech for BS and Guided?) Haidao - navy surly have no need to get fast to a corner for shooting, the corner in a ship are not far away - also they forgot the BTS here maybe cheap old suits from china ... ahm wait ...4-4 Hisen - cleary an elite suit for an elite warrior - 6-2 Hulang - a forward deployed suit don´t need be fast on the first move (but Infiltration with camo does, see above) wait coudn´t that be useful to bring that mono ccw to work? 4-4 (maybe its the poor PH12 ? but no, take a look at the Zuyong) clearly its the wight of ODD Hwarang - cheap korean stuff, Samsung H62 - fast and furios 6-2 with PH13 Imperial Agents (incl. chars) - elite stuff again, but this time no hurry to get to the POS (point of shooting), again that would be useful let them all that cool CC stuff, maybe is just an older suit but they keep it because tradtion and so 4-4 Jujak - good and cheap tech again. PH 12 6-2 move okay not fireprove but they look like Liu Xing - modified Zuyong armour here 6-2 Mowang - big boi S5 Arm 5 slow 4-4 (they fail to get the formular of the silverstar overprime armour) Shang Ji - the finest line infantery armour YJ can provide its should be elite and the Crane would lick their fingers to get it, but internal disputes between ISS and IA/WB are in the way. 6-2 arm 4 Su Jian - a special case here - the exception from the excepiton Sun Tze - has a fast one, why not 6-2 Tai Sheng - the heroine wears a modified Zuyong suit with higher BTS and better aiming aid - still 6-2 Wu Ming - they only get some old stuff - they not even have names ... but the old stuff is though arm 4 move 4-4 Yan Huo - slow (pew the 4-2 is gone), big, powerful. They have to carry TAG sized weapons so 4-4 (aren´t HMGs with Dam+1 also TAG-like?) Zencha - camo infiltrators need fast ... ah this one not, its a cheaper one, that not even provides a full second wound (last upgrade: Shock Imm) 4-4 then Zuyong - cheap, cost effectiv massproduction, not so powerful (PH12) but still fast 6-2 (Krit "the accidental hero" wears it also) Maybe its in the point costs? Sometimes it could be a sort of balancing (ultra heavy weapons should not be able to go quickly in a fire position), sometimes coincedence? At least the CC-oriented ones should also be 6-2. In YJ I would to prefer all 6-2 because of faction identity - sure!
'Wrong,' as well as 'right,' are subjective values. What you think is wrong I can think is right and reverse. 'Correct' and 'incorrect' are objective values. If people can only prove me 'wrong' then it means nothing to me. Even Stiopa's attempt to prove me wrong only showed a correct distribution that he as someone educated in statistics should have recognised. The way the BS values are distributed within each type and classification is a bell curse, which is the correct way to distribute such things. If you make a similar study within the HI types of each faction and assign them a value of 1 if they have MOV 4-4 and 2 if they have MOV 6-2 the resulting graphs would have no rhyme or reason as similar types within other factions, despite that they should be developed out of the same technology have different values. Lore-wise the best argument would be "But there's a monopoly" so you get low competition, low research, and increased prices for the same crap, except there's clearly competition in the market, and as such these differences should have been ironed out. Rules-wise there's nothing that keeps HI from being standard MOV 6-2. HI should never be compared to other HI, they should be compared to MI just like MI are compared to LI, and in that comparison, HI has no real distinguishing features. They have a little more durability, except no, because NWI and such are more common in MI than MOV 6-2 is. With every HD having Oblivion I would say that the value of HI has fallen dramatically since they're now far more vulnerable than they were before. They need the BTS increase so that's in no way a distinguishing factor, as Stiopa's bell curve showed there are plenty of LI and MI with the same BS as HI, so that's no distinguishing factor either. Just as the MI category is a clear improvement over the LI category, in most cases, so does HI need to be a clear improvement over MI, and the easiest way to do that, which would also make it easier for them to go around Repeater bubbles, make them more versatile, and give them a clear tactical edge that justifies their existence and point cost would be to give them MOV 6-2.
Wrong and right are not subjective. It is wrong to say the Earth is flat. And it is wrong to say that the BS distribution follows some kind of rules. As you were proven multiple times. Go play some games because every new topic or post you make confirms even more that your understanding of Infinity is currently very low and that your clearly don't have the knowledge to make enlightened suggestions that could improve the game. P.S : I didn't read past your first paragraph.
Mate, your original claim was either objectively incorrect, or a circular reasoning fallacy. Seriously, it's nothing shameful to admit being mistaken, you're putting in way too much effort to avoid it. Especially since you've correctly noticed the lack of consistency in unit design. It's only your solutions that are out of whack. As for the comparison HI can definitely be compared with other HIs. In general the basis for this comparison shouldn't be Unit Type, but the combat role the unit fills. So if I'm playing vCA and am in the market for a durable low to mid range assault unit within roughly 30-50 pts range it's perfectly fine to throw in Skiavoro, Kornak, Hasht, Suryat, Kaitok, Rindak, and Xeodron and compare between them all, MI/HI/TAG designation be damned. Rules-wise there's nothing that stops all HI from being ARM 5, either. But, like every other stat, MOV included, it's a balancing tool. Some HIs are less durable than other, just like some are faster, or slower. Yeah, would be nice for it to be more consistent, but leveling the field and taking out one of the balancing factors ain't it.
It is kinda funny because earlier editions used MOV to show the difference between LI, MI, and HI. MI having 4-2 made them so punishing to use that it seemed universal that everyone was happy they mostly got 4-4 in N4. To me, Infinity has always had an issue with MI. N4 has HI in a great place right now. But MI has always (with some exceptions) been moderately expensive (20s or 30s) single wound models with good or faction critical skills/kit. And that is super hard to balance.
Premium single wound units without a marker state absolutely tend to have issues right now. There are a few that make it work but they all tend to be either long range gunfighters with very good F2Fs (Knauf, Karhu, linked Yaogat), or backline utility pieces (mostly hackers like Jazz and Druze, but there's some other stuff like Blade Ops). Anything specialized more towards midrange gunfighting and especially close assault tends to fall flat on it's face (Khawarij, Ye Mao, Arjuna, etc) - mostly because they are at great risk of just eating a template and dying when you try to use them in the roles they are specialized towards. Granted, I'm also not in the remove DTW spam crowd because of their importance as defensive tools in a meta already very dominated by attacking. There's also quite a few units of this type that are just kind of... confused in their design. They don't really do anything especially well, but aren't really toolboxes either - units like Govads, Stranniks, Jackboots and Sulyong.
MI is very loosely defined a type to begin with, something like a Middle Class in economy and sociology. Part of this difficulty is lack of clear distinction between MI and LI, both are 1W (with few exceptions), both are unhackable, both have low to mid ARM/BTS (again, with few exceptions). And I'm not really sure if there's a point to maintain them as two different types, beyond this providing some kind of non-mechanic flavour
Expensive 1 W troops need to have excellent ftf ability and mobility to work. But when they do they're good; Karrhu anyone? Even Grenzer Marksmanship Sniper is good. C+, MSV, Marksmanship, Mimetism or some combo thereof tends to make expensive 1 W guys work, little else.
It is also used for the missions - in the current Objective Deck, two Classified Objectives have a requirement of needing a Medium Infantry (or Heavy Infantry) to fulfill. Not to say it couldn't be achieved in an another way, but yeah, there's an use for troops specifically with MI designation.
As someone who plays Vanilla Haqqislam, two units perfectly capture the issues with MI and CB's evolving design philosophy: The Kaplan Engineer versus the Burkut: Really? ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 2 KAPLAN (Engineer, Deactivator) Combi Rifle, Adhesive Launcher, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 27) BURKUT Submachine Gun, Heavy Flamethrower(+1B), AP Mines, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 27) 0 SWC | 54 Points Open in Infinity Army While the Kaplan does have longer range weapons, the Burkut gets so much in exchange for being hackable HI: NWI AP Mines +1 Armor, CC, PHY Immunity (Continuous Damage) Burst 2 HFT (or Emarat) Sure if you have a meta where hacking nets are oppressive, I could see someone reaching for the Kaplan. It is also linkable in Vanilla. But the increased resilience and powerful room clearing toolkit of the Burkut makes it to me stand heads and shoulders over the Kaplan engineer.
'Subjective' is subjective to the person talking and the person listening and thus subject to interpretation. 'Objective' is only beholden to the evidenced and recorded reality. Is the Earth objectively flat? No. Is the Earth subjectively flat to someone who believes it's flat? Yes. That's how psychological phenomenology works How is it a circular fallacy? Unless you give argumentation a statement is useless. Within a game, there needs to exist both external and internal balance. The external balance is between HI and MI and the difference between HI and MI given the overlap in skills where you often see the external difference is small. Internally you have the "fast" HI and the rules for "fast" are given arbitrarily. Some "fast" HI have MOV 6-2, additional PH for Dodge, and Dodge distance to show that they're "fast" and others just have MOV 6-2- To make that consistent give every HI MOV 6-2 to give it external difference to MI in a meaningful way and internally give the "fast" HI additional Dodge value and Dodge distance. Problem solved, there's now both an external and internal balance that's meaningful. HI offers something that MI never will be able to, except in a vast minority of cases, and "fast" HI offers something that ordinary HI will never be able to, additional mobility if your choice is something other than trying to murder-hoboing everything. Changing HI MOV to 6-2 would also make certain profiles viable. A Silverstar Rover with a combi rifle is viable because it can get into a position to use it. Is it optimal, meh, the answer to that is pending, and probably no, and at least it's useful. A Hospitalier Knight with a combi rifle is something I would never consider as the HMG is a lot more efficient. Unless I for some reason lacked the points to buy a Varuna ORC with boarding shotgun and really wanted a HI with a combi rifle is the -only- scenario I can think of outside of filling a link. The Varuna ORC comes with a Tinbot that gives Firewall -3. It's in every way, save for the WIP, superior or equal to the Hospitalier despite the ORC supposedly being the McHI while Hospitaliers have bespoke gear befitting their status.
Are we really debating the objectivity of the shape of the Earth on a miniature forum? You really are a piece of work dude... This amount of bad faith is off the charts. Again, go play some games, you'll understand Infinity better and it will save a bit of BS written if the forums EDIT : and because the meaning of objective/subjective seems unclear to you, here are two definitions. adjective: subjective based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions. adjective: objective 1. not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts. "historians try to be objective and impartial" The Earth is objectively not flat. The BS in Infinity models is objectively not distributed according to this "rule" you invented.
I think that one might have more to do with the weapon loadout. I don't even know if bespoke modifiers like +1B have a set cost in the formula, but the difference between a Combi Rifle and an SMG can infamously buy an entire Hacking Device. In addition, the Burkut is Religious (which I think has another discount attached?) and Hackable on top...
You brought it up and now it's an attack as if one thing has anything to do with the other. I've said nothing about it being the way it was distributed I said you can go through every profile and it makes sense in how the profile is presented. With HI you have the "fast HI" that has MOV 6-2, and then you also have "fast" HI that has MOV 4-4 and additional Dodge value and Dodge distance. It's inconsistent and both the external and internal balance makes no sense.
Nope, you brought this BS (not Ballistic Skill) "right and wrong are subjective" thing, mate. Then I told you something could be objectively wrong, like flat Earth or your delirium about this so-called stat distribution. Go play some games
