January>Avril 2024: A new Infinity year full of "magic"

Discussion in 'News' started by Wizzy, Dec 5, 2023.

  1. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I used to feel like that but then TAGs got +1 Dmg, Tac Aware, and were almost needed for some missions because their CCW counted as Anti-Material. Also just bigger. I love Suzy but she still can't do some of the things a TAG can. Now if they ever came out with a transforming TAG! I'd be a happy Yu Jing citizen! :heart_eyes:
     
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  2. archon

    archon Well-Known Member

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    Right. Steel has a TAG-Analogum that is called Achilles (3 real wounds!) and still got a TAG.
    ISS needs their TAG with two sync Kuang Shi ;-)
     
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  3. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    IS needs real TAG exactly as much as Phalanx did, which is not at all :P

    It's fully possible that Su Jian will get some updates when it'll be IS turn for a rework.
     
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  4. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    I want to argue against a what is effectively a police/ riot police/ secret service have a TAG, but eh why not? O-12 has TAGs why not ISS?
     
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  5. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    For the same reason not every faction gets Smoke. More variety in army design and list construction.
     
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  6. fari

    fari CRISTASOL, EL LIQUIDO DE LOS DIOSES

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    In Caledonia we have most of the Ariadna tesseum mines, but we didnt get any of the 2 mining related tags...
     
  7. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    Because The Man is taking advantage of you.
     
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  8. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    Because Appleseed.
     
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  9. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    It was not an argument against it. O-12 has police themed TAGs why not ISS.
     
  10. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    Well there is an argument for Triphammers to be available.
     
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  11. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    Neither Zeta nor Wrecker are police-themed. I agree that it's possible to make a TAG that is, but so far we haven't seen one.
     
  12. StephanDahl

    StephanDahl Well-Known Member

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    The Zeta has a Heavy Riotstopper; Isn't that as close to a police TAG as one can reasonably expect?
     
  13. Rabble

    Rabble Well-Known Member

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    'Zeta' is literally the way a police car is called in Spain. And I would venture it is also partially inspired in the Blue Jack Armor of the anime Armored Police Metal Jack.
     
  14. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    Complete with HRMC for crowd control, or rather crowd removal ;) Nah, I repeat, I completely agree it's possible to design a police TAG, but a single secondary weapon, name (O-12 Remotes are also named using slang names for a cop, doesn't mean they're police-themed units), or visual design aren't what makes it one. Zeta being the closest doesn't mean it's actually close.

    Light TAGs would actually make sense as a durable platform for delivering non-lethal weaponry. Riotstoppers, ADHL/Akrylat, PARA GLs, Nanoscreen (let's be honest, humans will crack this tech at some point), 360v (worth every point in urban enviroment) something like dual Mk12 for lethal force projection. And I can see such unit fitting Starmada or IS. Which doesn't change my opinion that not every army needs a TAG.
     
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  15. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    It is a matter of defining what a "police-themed TAG" is, and what is it meant to be used for.

    For heavens' sake, if we are to invoke anime/manga inspirations (which Infinity likes to draw from), there were literal police tanks there.
    [​IMG]

    so police powersuits / mecha / big robots can have their place. Like K-11 powersuits of the Bubblegum Crisis / Crash, Guges "landmates" in Appleseed, or - if we are to go to a pretty extreme size (compared to TAGs), police Labors in Patlabor.

    Now, the question there is - why does a police force need such a big scary weapons platform with that much firepower for?
    • in Bubblegum Crisis / Bugglegum Crash / AD Police Files franchise, that's because they have the Boomers - "robots" who sometimes go crazy in town, and some of them are armed and armored to mil-spec standards.
    • in Appleseed, that's because "landmate" powrsuits are a very commonly used technology, and some of them are used in crime.
    • in Patlabor, again, labors are commonly used, and they either go haywire, or are used in crimes sometiems, so the cops need an equivalent countermeasure.
    Riotstopper (or any other non-lethal weapon) is not what makes a TAG a police TAG. IRL, there are police forces who use armored vehicles on par with army's APCs or MRAPs (in some cases, literally the exact same models. In extreme cases, with the same exact weapons packages, though it tends to end at the HMG level). Non-lethal weapons on police vehicles are rather limited to water cannons on specailized riot control vehicles.

    I somehow highly doubt ISS does much riot control with their TAGs (let's assume here they do have TAGs): they deploy them against armed insurgents / separatists / criminal elements whenever they expect to see military-grade weapons and especially armor on the opposing side. With Diggers and Triphammers around, so civillian technologies repurposed for combat available now (definitely not a thing back when ISS was introduced back in N2HS!), it would make sense for ISS to require such a backup.

    Personally, I'd build it onv a "light TAG" chassis, for mobility and ability to use cover. Not necessarily for long-range slug-it-out.
    ...well, or I'd stick to the Su-Jian, just slap AP ammo on the Spitfire...

    (...or why not both...? I.e. Su-Jian with AP Spitfire and a light TAG...)
     
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  16. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    I see that I went the stereotypical way, but Errhile analysis makes sense as well. It reminds me of Shakush situation; Bahram was without a TAG for a long time, the only real spot it could fit one in was direct fire support platform. So the real question is: what spots need to be filled in IS or other similar sectorials that TAG would fill best?
     
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  17. StephanDahl

    StephanDahl Well-Known Member

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    Modern police have Mounted troopers for crowd intimidation, Water cannon for applying non-lethal force, and (at least in some jurisdictions) armoured vehicles to deal with armed terrorists. I think the Zeta covers all those bases in a single platform. The railgun looks like it is easily detachable too, so it is probably not mounted if you send it out to look impressive during a peaceful demonstration around the Öberhaus...
     
  18. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    "We load up on lethal ammo just for intimidation, we'll change to rubber bullets in case of a real riot, honest" :sunglasses:
     
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  19. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    I believe this is not an adequate analogy.

    See, what we see on an Infinity tabletop labelled as a "police force" (be it ISS, O-12/ Starmada or whoever else) is not your regular patrol cops. Not your friendly district officer, nor a beat patrol. Definitely not the guys that get sent when you call the police because your neighbor is having a late night party, and the music is playing a bit too loud.

    What you see on tabletop is law enforcement tactical team. SWAT, intervention group, counterterrorist police, Hostage Rescue Team, or, as they are nicknamed where I live, the chimneysweeps*. The serious guys with training, firepower and attitude who are there to deal - if needed be - with opponents possessing military-grade firepower, equipment and training.
    Because, after all, that's what the opposing force in a game of Infinity is.

    You know who the real, regular police forces of Infinity are, fluff-wise? Alguaciles and Moderators. But then Bakunin and Corregidor are quite interesting places, if your average beat cop needs to pack an assault rifle (with missile launchers and HMGs for backup) and mil-spec body armor.

    * what is called "balaclava" in English, here is a "chimney cap / chmineysweep's cap" in translation, and these guys are known to wear these.
     
    #799 Errhile, Mar 26, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2024
  20. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Easy, Intimidation. You will be able to easily break up riots, get bad guys to surrender, etc. We are talking about a hyper power with a thing for order and already use questionable things.

    Also, who knows what the enemy brings? ISS regularly goes up against TAGs but don't have the firepower to hurt them. Don't get me wrong, they do have some but they are not up to date on many weapons. The only AP is a Hsien CCW, only 4 troops have D-Charges (2 of which are AVA1), 2 missile launchers (1 no one takes). Some monofilament and some E/M. E/M is great until they make their re-set roll or engineer out of it. The rest are a few regular Spitfires and HMG.

    [​IMG]
     
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