Nomads, BS attack -3 is back but not for you

I always saw BS Attack -3 as being the guy throwing so many bullets that feels like a solid wall of bullets so you can't react. Basically throwing so many bullets that I am aiming for you and everything within a meter of you. Granted that was back when it was packaged with +1 burst so the "it is even more bullets" argument made a bit more sense.

Also used to joke that was why the kriza had terrain total. It shoots so many bullets it clears the jungle, acts like a jet pack in zero-g, and even parts the red sea. With enough bullets anything is possible!

Not that it needs a fluff argument (CB never does, they make it up after all) I guess I'd argue the SSP is using a laser beyond the visible spectrum to help aim and his MSV let's him see the laser. That way he can be more accurate but the enemy doesn't realize it.

 

Well, unfortunately, every new mini you sell has to be better than the previous one... Not great from a gameplay point of view but almost mandatory when you earn money by selling minis. That power creep doesn't even have to be an issue, as long as you update the older references to (at least a bit) catch up with the new ones but CB is not great with that..

 

Agreed. Honestly the entire discussion could have been avoided if they gave BS Attack -3 back to the the Kriza (and sogarat). Kriza would still be power crept but at least could be spun positively, sort of "hey nomads we gave you back a rule, aren't we kind?" Sort of deal.

 

I think the Kriza should have BS Attack (-3) and cost the same, absolutely

 

There is nothing to give back. The rule was created for that unit in N3, when situation of Nomad faction was completely different than in N4. Right now Nomads have too much and do not deserve that rule. Sogarat never had that rule and right now Morats do not need more shit.
Developers have taken things from units and players are not entitled to compensations. Krizia has lost a skill between transition to N4. So what? Nomads have gained a trillion of skills and game room in exchange, some of them they should not have.
YuJing has lost much more and you do not hear anything.
- They lost Kodali, a character with a skill which was similar to AD: (deployment zone) . In N4 Nomads and Morats are given this skill but YJ does not.
- They lost bikes. Nowadays every not OOP faction have its own bike unit except YJ.
- The only faction to lose a full sectoral. And with it an alpha striker like Oniwaban, Shinobu.
- They were a top faction in CC when it was almost useless. With uprising they lost that but still had an edge as it's figthers has MA3. N4 criminal rework made MA2 an equalizer. Before a monk wiped the floor with a Morlock. Now a Morlock is much better for the same points. Not to say Nomads is full of CC monsters, which was not the case in N3.
- Let's not talk about the rework of IA that has turned on a new sectoral for O12 , resulting into another loss of identity for YJ.

So many slaps for this faction and you don't hear many complains. But now that a skill is back you feel Nomads are entitled to have it back? With so much they have had already?
Come on, stop behaving like a spoiled kid.

 

I think Nomads already had too much. Rework points for Kriza, but in N4 they do not need more firepower.

This powerful skill should be limited to sectorials that bring high firepower in exchange of big limitations and that have no access to smoke nor warbands.

 

The Kriza isn't even that great with BS Attack (-3) so you'll live.

Nomads don't have "too much" that is very silly. They aren't the most powerful faction, by any stretch. Yes Bakunin is good, yes Vanilla is good, but you can't take Krizas in Bakunin and you probably wouldn't take them in Vanilla if you wanted to really optimise your list.

 

Also your argument is literally "I want nice toys and until I get them you shouldn't have anything good." How is calling people spoiled children the basis for any kind of reasoned discussion?

 

So Torchlight shouldn't have it then?

Hellblazers have smoke, and are essentially warband HI (stealth, exp ccw, MA2 with cc22, impetuous). Hypolita is explicitly a warband and has eclipse smoke. Both of them can go into links and so can throw burst 2 smoke/eclipse at anywhere from 13/14 to 19/20 depending on the fireteam.

Thank you for agreeing with me in a way. I wasn't arguing for taking BS Attack-3 out of Torchlight, but I guess that does solve the issue.

 

So a few points, just because Yu-Jing has lost more doesn't mean anyone else can't complain when they lose something. It is both not germane, and not particularly logical. If someone got punched in the gut but their friend got kicked in the junk both people would have cause to be angry. Same applies here, you can express dissatisfaction even if you aren't the most abused person in the room.

As for rest, it is more of a double standard that is the problem. If rule X was too complex/strong to exist in N4, then why is it appearing now and on a stronger shooting platform than the kriza ever was. It is not entitlement to say "Hey you took that away, but it's okay to have in the game now. May we have it back?". I have not seen anyone ask for a point adjustment, they just want the rule back.

As for the tiresome "nomads have too much" argument. Nomads are good, but in vanilla the win rate is ~49%, and that is good (btw tunguska sits at about 41%). That is about where Vanilla should be. Our tournament rankings are equally middle of the road. As a general rule we have a lot of toys but outside of hacking those toys fall somewhere in 3rd or 5th best in class. We are a generalist faction, that is where we should sit. I don't think giving this rule back to the kriza will tip that meaningfully.

 

No, they do not have smoke.

Torchlight Brigade sole source of smoke is the eclipse grenade of Hippolyta.

 

You are right and I am wrong, hell blazers do not have smoke.

The point stands though, by the logic of the post I was responding to, that Torchlight should not have this rule.

 

Just to make it clear: I'm not saying Nomads should have BS -3.
I'm saying that, in my opinion, O-12 shouldn't have it. Just like everyone else in the game shouldn't have BS -3.

I consider BS -3 to be a bad rule, because it is unintuitive, and it has no counter-mechanics.
Mimetism, sure, all day long (with the note that it is maybe a bit too popular these days), but BS -3 was (back when it was called Full Auto L2) elliminated from the game back in late N3, and we did just perfectly fine without it since that day, thank you very much.

Of course, that's just an opinion, and just mine at that. For what it is worth, i.e. not much.

 

Well the easier counter mechanic for it is coordinated attack, only one model can be affected by it.

Same goes for shooting it with stacked modifiers forcing it to dodge or forcing multiple ARO.

As I said above I am not sure I would prefer it over mimetism.

Thanks for caring, I haven't gone anywhere though.

 

You can spend command token to make your TAG NOT run away from a pistol shot. I know this is not the topic in this thread but I don't want to revive that thread.

I play PanO. BS attack(-3) is definitely not good for me but I'm not against giving it to Kriza if they remove mim(-3) from Kriza. Anyway, they had it before. But I don't think BS attack(-3) is a good rule.

Prime has HMG, MSV L1, and core linkable, so -3 from cover, -3 from range, -3 from mim-6 is the best? Within 8 inches, Prime will shoot riotstopper and force -3 mod to anything you do. Outside 32", feuerbach and sniper rifle have low burst and mim-6 troopers have usually low BS and not linkable (even PanO mim-6 multi snipers are BS12). So 2 sniper shots for 9 (12+3(range)-3(cover)-3(bs-3)) vs 2 BS Aro for 5 or 6 (14-3(range)-3(cover)-3(mim-6)+1(if 5man core))? Or 2 snipers shots for 12 vs 1 dodge for 13. The odds for sniper to win and wound Prime are similar in both cases so I'll take shooting.

 

The counter mechanic to bs attack (-3) is find a way to limit its ability to shoot you, which is certainly doable

 

That would solve the core issue as well.