When I first saw the Silverstar Prime I wanted to say something, but decided to wait till it was official, till it was in the app. So I waited and watched, and I must say you all are not even looking like you want to improve your faction. I get it, I know Pan-O players love to complain and get mocked for it, but at least they care enough to try to speak out vs a slap in the face. Nomads, you do not. Originally I was going to make a post called the “Nomads the Non-TAG TAG faction” and tease you about TAGs running from pistols again, but CB has done one better than that. The Prime is a slap in the face to Nomads, CB removed Full Auto level 2 (+1 burst and BS Attack-3) at the beginning of N4 taking the Kriza to mimetism-3 instead of BS attack -3 which would have been a more accurate translation. Okay I get it, rules need to be simplified to streamline things or it was too powerful. If I were a Nomad player would I have been angry or sad yes, but that logic would have won out. Now CB needs/wants a big win for O-12 because there is only so much patching Starmada can do, so they reintroduce the effects of full auto level 2, as BS attack -3 to make the Prime special/unique/cool/OP take your pick and what are you all doing? You’re quiet as can be. I do not even hear crickets from you all. Your faction has punk inspirations so be loud and get your voices heard or do you just like the trappings of it? Say it loud enough and force them to listen, force a change, show passion for your faction and fight to improve it!
Some of us are just bored of forum drama, given that nothing said on here changes anything at CB anyways
Agreed on the first point, forum drama is dumb. I have suffered enough of it, I should know. Disagree on the second point. CB put the original Squallo back in the App and moved the road bot in to vanilla. Pan-O and O12 have shown if you make noise CB may listen.
It is more "if you make a sound and logical case" CB may listen. On the original subject, on one hand mimetism is cancelled by MSV on the other hand it applies all the time regardless of what the model does, so I am not sure what I would prefer more.
Do you really feel a removed rule from ONE model is worth all this drama? I do not. It doesn't impact my life this much.
That's the problem I have with "BS attack -3". With Mimetism - OK, the guy has some form of camouflage that makes it difficult to hit him. I can get behind that, no problem. With BS attack -3, I see no reason why the target is difficult to hit. It isn't "because he's throwing a lot of lead my way" - because the skill works no matter what he's doing. Shooting, Dodging or even just standing still (as in, unopposed shot to the back). With CC -3, that's easier to fathom, as close combat tends to be pretty invovling for all participants.
I always assumed they removed it for balance reasons cause BS-3 on FullAuto lvl2 had no counter. And everyone whined that Nomads are too damn good. But it seems that balance was a BS excuse and it doesn't matter when you plan to sell new toys. Hopefully, CB is not taking GW's approach for new releases.
There have been a lot of sound and logical cases made to CB over the years that they have all diligently chosen to ignore. And I definitely know what I want more. BS -3 is better in every way than Mimetism because it can't be cancelled.
BS Attack (-3) only applies if he makes a BS Attack so no it doesn't work if he dodges etc Honestly I don't rate the Kriza v much and if it had BS Attack (-3) over Mimetism (-3) I still wouldn't. I'd rate it if it became MOV 6-2 though
I beg to differ. It applies every time someone makes a BS attack against user of such a skill. Same way Odalisque's CC -9 applies every time someone is trying to make a CC attack against her, regardless of what the Odalisque herself is doing. It doesn't apply if someone tries to interact in a way that is not a CC attack (Dodge out of CC, for example).
Any MOD or value in round brackets next to a Special Skill, Weapon, or Equipment—such as CC Attack (+3), Combat Jump (PH=10), BS Attack (B+1) etc.—only applies when using the Special Skill, Weapon, or Equipment. Positive MODs only apply to the user. Negative MODs only apply to enemies. Negative MODs for Automatic Skills and Equipment—such as Mimetism (-6), or Surprise Shot (-3)—always apply the MOD as specified in their rules. Negative MODs for other Special Skills, Weapons, and Equipment—such as Dodge (-3), or CC Attack (-3)—only apply during Face to Face Rolls. I read this such that "BS Attack (-3)" only applies when the model with this Special Skill uses the BS skill, in a FTF roll.
As I wrote above, such skills apply only when the skill is used, so if the Silverstar prime decides it needs to dodge, then there is no -3 to BS applied.
There were loads of units that lost rules from the N3-N4 transition, I fail to see why that particular model has ownership of -3bs. Yes, it once had it, and now it doesn't. If everyone got all het up when that happened there would be an insane level of aggro on the forums. Wait a minute...
Going to rapid fire these. BS Attack -3 also makes it more difficult to dodge the heavy riot stopper as that is a BS attack, even though it does not require a role or care about your BS stat. So that is a sweet little benefit I have not not seen people mention, that mimetism-3 does not equate to.
Yes, BS Attack only applies when the silver star prime (ssp) shoots, but given it's BS 14+msv1+bs attack+1 damage on top of the -3 mod when it shoots back at the enemy, I don't see many situations where it will prefer to dodge over shooting. Basically only when it is being shot when it can not see the enemy, but depending on range bands even then it may choose to shoot as a way to not win the role but to make the enemy fail the role (and possibly role well enough to kill the enemy) This isn't about "mimetism-3 is always worse" this is more of "mimetism -3 is worse in 80% of situations"
The issue isn't the removal of full auto level 2 from the Kriza, the issue is full auto was removed and later put onto another model that is a more dangerous shooting platform than the Kriza ever was (better BS, has a template weapon, MSV 1), that is also harder to hack (BTS 9 vs. 6 on the Kriza), and linkable with 18 point MA2 essentially-warband HI (among other excellent options). And it is worth noting this is for a faction whose last sectorial sold so poorly it required multiple updates, new models, and patches. So it also looks like "hey we need to hype this up to push sales, let's give it a rule we removed".
On a less factual note it is just kind of annoying that the SSP is better in multiple ways and is a point cheaper than the kriza HMG. It feels like getting tipped one cent. Tipping nothing makes it seem lazy or the person forgot, but one cent means they *want* you to see it. If it had been the same cost then it is just "yeah that is what S5 HI with a vis mod costs", but one point cheaper is just that little extra twist of the knife that lets you know they care. Just more of a funny observation rather than anything else
Hey Psychotic Storm, glad to see you back! I was worried you got hurt after you disappeared from the TAG post. I am going to disagree with the whole "sound and logical case" argument you have going there. The Roadbot was designed for Starmada, was meant to be exclusive for Starmada (either to help drive sales or for balance we will never know, but considering it's sales I do believe the former), and was publicly stated that the original image saying it would be in vanilla was an error. But O12 players complained and it got changed. Whatever sound and logical case CB had, and it must have been a good one since it caused them to admit to an error in a studio update, was overturned by the player base complaining. And as for things that are "sound and logical" that CB stood by/stands by: ECM-8 on the Zeta (the only instance not -6 and goes against the multiple of 3 rule they work by), the Reverend healers being mim-3 for at least an edition and half (basically till they wanted to make a character version), and the Szallamandra being the only HRMC that has a base cost of 2 SWC in the game. I love CB, but they only fix a problem well after it has become a problem.
Honestly, best answer is just give BS attack -3 back to the Kriza (removing mim-3 ofcourse) and the Sogarat (can't recall if it had level full auto level 1 or 2, but meh let them have it either way). Not calling for a point adjustment or anything else, they removed the rule and now they are have brought it back so they are just putting it back on those models that had it. The kriza will still be power crept, but it would feel better than this slap in the face and give the nomads and CA back a rule that made those units feel unique. Heck CB could even spin it as being a positive "oh nomad players we are returning a rule to you, aren't we kind!" Best of all, it's low cost solution. It's just an army app update, not printing a new set of codices or anything like that.
