Indexation of the last video tactica from Robert Shepherd channel. Infinity Faction Tier List - 2024 Edition
This is some very spicy takes. Haqqislam, Neoterra, and Vanilla PanO ranking so high is...interesting. USARF higher than Onyx and MO? Looking at the Win rates, I definitely do not think I can agree. Maybe it is the ITS season with all the exclusion zones, but Vanilla Haqqislam is struggling right now.
Def some spicy takes but I think it's good to remember (Rob basically says this anyway) that the point of tier lists is more to structure a discussion of the meta as a whole. Also tier lists are great in the youtube meta.
It is an interesting discussion. I am still working through it, but the core of the Vanilla PanO discussion feels like using a TAG is essential. However, IMO, with the exception of the Cutter, no PanO TAG has great FtF odds (71.3% to 19.4%)of beating a linked Phoenix or HRL Cenobite ARO. The Tik and Ulhan have good FtF odds (55.5% to 35.5%), but I would be cautious. Of course, the rise of Bakunin and Steel has given the Aquila HMG its time to shine Ftf (73.8% to 20.3%). I just don't think you could safety fit the Aquila and a TAG in a list.
That's not really news; it's pretty much the only strong point of the army (except for maybe the Swiss Guard?). I think there's an argument to be made - I'm not sure I agree with it - that the Cutter and the Uhlan are the only viable TAGs anyway. Camo means they're the only ones with are resistant to T1 long bomb pitchers possessing or bricking them, and the they have some level of self-sufficiency in terms of their ability to actually move in midfield. Obviously, this is inflammatory, but in a tournament context you don't know what you're running into in advance, so you have to be prepared for the cheap hacking packages many armies can now field. A 21 point Dartok or Bit & Kiss will force you to dedicate way more than 21 points of your list to keeping your TAG from being locked down, and there's a point where the required engineer, skirmisher(s), hacker(s), and orders dedicated to keeping the TAG operation become throwing good points after bad.
I do not think the essentiality of TAGs is what one would gather at least from the initial discussion.
Essentially of a "top tier gun piece" is the take away. Doesnt have to be a tag but usually is because it has to deal with the opponents tag equivalents which pushes down a lot of the hi hmg platforms these days.
Its just the nature of Pano. Their best gunfighter option is often a TAG but yes some meta picks like Linked Phoenix makes the Aquila HMG look like a decent pick again and its a very overlooked option nowadays. But the reason why is that in most other situations the Pano TAGs will dominate. Some local metas dont have SP players, etc. Which makes things lean even more in favor of TAGs. But this is specific to Pano who has no choice but shoot down strong enemy AROs.
I think this tier list is very meta dependent. For example, in Barcelona, where it is normal to see our players in the top 10, the consensus is that Vanilla PanO is a bad faction that lacks key tools
I think that was actually brought up- if PanO gets unlucky and you lose your key gunfighters or otherwise can't clear the way, you have basically already lost. Smoke, hacking or stealth plays all allow another shot under most circumstances, or are substantially more reliable. If you really are using all their tools PanO is still pretty good, but you're more likely than anyone else to have your dice hand the game to your opponent regardless of how well you play.
That is true, my lists are always starting on what are my 3 premium gunfighters, how I can/ must support them, and then how to shape any mobility elements on my list. That is a big issue with PanO, as I wrote above a PanO list will usually have 3 top gunfighters, because PanO is such a direct faction it puts its key elements in direct attrition and something will be unlucky, how frequently and how close to each other (and what damage has been dealt before this happens) are key elements in any PanO list performance, how good and inventive is the PanO player behind the list after such failure state is paramount to how PanOceania lists will perform after that.
TAGs also have the benefits of high armor that has become increasingly important as face to face against apex ARO unit like Atalanta became harder and harder to win. Where an HI will quite likely bites the dust when it rolls poorly, a TAG can shrug the hit, get repaired, and keep the trigger pressed until the target is gone. These days I'd rate a guijia well over a yan huo HRMC, because I need a job done and I know the guijia will do it more reliably.
I feel like B and C could realistically be rolled into one, and I don't think there's much distinction between A+ and A, but those broadly look right although I'm not a tier list guy Tohaa should be A+ tho
Saddly, using superjump means that you can't claim partial cover benefits or force camo trooper to make some hard choises using discover+shoot. People aren't stupid. Atalanta and Armand highly competive pieces because there are lists out there that can't easily remove them and you can effectively win the game during first turn if the table is table is badly designed or they get slightly lucky. Before anyone says that the table is the third player, there are are lot of troopers in this game that don't win the game on first turn even on badly designed table or they get slightly lucky.
There are subtle distinctions between the tiers than are enough to differentiate them in my opinion. I can see the argument for Tohaa the position between A and A+ is a perspective for them, if you play them or play against them so much that you know every trick and counter for them they are A otherwise they are A+.
