January>Avril 2024: A new Infinity year full of "magic"

I'll point out that this is not going to be a cheap sectoral. What's cheap and fantastic in one sectoral is overcosted and meh in another. Once you have that core fireteam with expensive troops it's going to be hard to fit in Stormbots, Samus, Wreckers. Right now I see if I want to play a Wrecker, I might not be able to have a Core team at all. maybe a haris or two. Samus can't join any teams at all and no specialist version. The cheapest (under 20pts) troops I see are also only AVA1 or 2 (Ment, Moonraker, Kappa, Raveneye, etc). So sure some things are great but when you have to make sacrifices to get it, its it really that great?

Edit: The cheapest core you can get is Hellblazer18pts, Kappa 12, Raveneye x2 24, Ment 15 is 69pts of ineffective crud.

It's more likely to be Rover HMG 37, HB 18, Waverider 24, Kludger 25, Prime 53 = 157pts

 

I agree with your general point, but how do you decide which unit gets disadvantaged and which unit doesn't?
Along which axes do you design this philosophy? Are TAGs on the opposite spectrum of Warbands, so both can't be premium at the same time? Or is is more complex and you can't have TAGs, hacking and warbands at premium level at the same time? How do active turn snipers factor into this and what about dedicated linked ARO pieces?

I find there are so many axes along which you can design faction balance that it's not always conclusive what tradeoffs are being made and if there is any underlying logic to it in the first place.

 

I am not a game designer, but my intuiton is telling me that if you have premium costed TAGs and Warbands, then you have to cut corners in the infantry line and support pieces. A given sectorial can not 'have it all' at the same time, and in fact it does not "have it all" at the moment. That's why we are seeing a win ratio of 55% for the three most played factions of Steel Phalanx, Combined Army and Bakunin... A win ratio of ONLY 55% for the most 'community percieved as OP' factions? Any live competitive game that have constant changes would kill for having such a win ratio for its most OP stuff

Game design wise, that the most played factions lay between the 55%-45% win ratio implies a balanced game. The fact that the 'creme-de-la-creme' players, as well as 'one-trick-ponies' can achieve a higher than 55% win ratio with a given faction is also expected, as they bring either excelent game expertise, or in-depth faction knowledge and how-do, to overperform from what is expected.

So yes, I do in fact believe there is an underlying logic behind it all.

 

This I agree with completely

Bottom line is that we're still all up in arms about army that we haven't seen in action. Theorycrafting is all and well, let's see how it plays - and plays against.

 

I hope you are right.

 

You forgot about Cubes. Some humans can be immortal if their cube is recovered and put into a new body.

 

Food for thought: Either you endure those peaks, or CB stops the bait & switch with the egregious broken profiles to release later a little less broken, but seemingly more balanced because people compare them with the previews. Protesting our critiques on the basis that "later it will be more real" does not compute with the preview of profiles by the company.

The fact that they (finally) placed the advertisement that final profiles may vary suggest they got a heads up on "not-all-that-truthful-marketing" stuff the EU is not very happy with.

Please do note that, while they have WIP13, it seems ALL of them start at BTS 6... Suer it's not "great", but BTS comes in 0, 3, 6 and 9, and aside from Kaplan you had to go TAG to get 9...

Mostly because most of those are close to Pilar-list (they have a core, or Pilar, and all the list revolves around it). So far, in TB I have not seen autoinclude units like Eudoros (Phoenix & Machaon are autoinclude to me too, but because their kit is unique, while Eudoros is simply a Super Mario), the Total Immunity cheap furries (both in Bakunin -the Chimera is autoinclude because Eclipse Smoke, the pupniks are the cherry on top- and Ariadna, the Avatar/Charontid/Anatematic (poor Skiavoros, I knew ye), but I stand that Nomads are currently the top faction for long-term commitment, specially Bakunin, since you can touch ALL strategies and tactics, and have access to nearly all skills and gear in the game. Aleph would be second because of how stable and error-forgiving I find it, vanilla CA's OPPRESSION lists around Aspects+Speculo, Hassassin being a silent runner... Tohaa is there just because of the Schrödinger factor, very few remain that know what to expect beyond the frogs.

The problem is ALL arguments "against" Corvus are dismissed entirely with whatever choice word. When one side perceives they are the only ones making the effort to make the argument, it becomes clear that hearing the other side is just irrelevant, so venting becomes the norm. That's how this forum has degraded over the years.

Heck, it took hours to criticize the Commlink tax by the community (further argued with actual testing), and now, instead of saying you were right, people say "Corvus is wise, they corrected" ignoring the usual Corvus mindset, of claiming it was released balanced for a game mode... that was strictly forbidden (and still is).
It's like the Kriza Borac "no, we never said you could pile it with Suppresive Fire" after literally telling it... Or taking 6 months to fix the Civilian Smoke combo in ITS10 (which I mentioned several times and guess what, my timing was off, I was optimistic by a week or so...).

The PLAN is: force people to buy the latest box. Previous Boxes are considered a success and covered costs on launch, so move along and consider all sales of those after the third month from release absolute bonus.

Enforced equality: ALL factions must have one TAG per sectorial. ALL factions must have one S5 HI per sectorial. Etc...

It's a "formula for success", don't you see it?

Most of my Starmada units are between 12 and 20pts, with 3 big hitters (Bronze HMG, Epsilon Sniper, Parvati). I can't reach 15 bodies. But for certain, ALL BUT TWO units are single-wound ones, single-order and few are specialists!
TB does not only have the cake and eat it, they also bake it, with their own farms to gather the ingredients! XD

Please do remember that the core of the game system is a Blackjack with dice, with each player having their own target number, and a 5% chance of autowin (ties favour defender), etc..., AND that the OTM only records official tournaments, mixing ALL players (that is, we are paying CB to give them the ratios which I find hilariously genius on their part... if they really did something). So a newbie playing "the best" faction will lower their ratio, while the veteran that knows the rules and measures by heart will provide input of the same value.
Also remember that Tohaa are over that 55% despite playing much less games... https://infinitythemeta.com/factionWinrate?season=15&tier=300

Data needs to be normalized in order to be considered. Otherwise, it's just people justifying their beliefs with numbers (shudder)

All can, potentially. They just need to have the money to pay for the new body...

And now I'm out, the Galaxy needs Managed Democracy!

 

Knight of Justice and Asawira Regiment says HI.

 

OUCH! That's rough! XD
I like it

 

It is possible, however, I do not see this as a very good move. This will leave all current books and comics well in the past, A! well in the past and many of the newly developed plots - well in the past. Who does what to which outpost on Human Edge 2.0 and the epic fight for justice of the Torchlight Brigade vs some Ikari squad or the local fauna is rather subpar to the fate of Concilium. Where we just got served a Roadside Picnic.

Squatted factions will also make people salty and Infinity's fanbase is smaller and more isolated, 1-2 players quitting can break down groups. So not really a great decision, imho. Something has to be done with the OOP factions, but just removing them only solves a bit of game design time. I can see wrapping SC back into Tohaa and maybe turning the Scots and the French into an Auld Alliance sectorial, but full removal just doesn't seem to have good cost/benefit.

You can have Torchlight relevant to the colonisation process just fine. Hypercorps will be sending prospector teams, Nomads are already rumoured to have an extra system of their own, YJ is very aggressive towards new territories, as seen from the history of Svalarheima... The first years of colonisation and flag-planting are actually more fertile ground for a small, agile peace-keeping force than when you already have settlements.

 

That was irony, but I think you got it because of your smily. The profile is out (could change slightly and if this results in removing the BS-3 (there is not even any fluff reason, the reason why Kriza had it in N3 was the sheer amount of bullets that forces you to keep your head down and therefor affects your aim) - I am fine ;-)

Someone wrote it already - every faction needs a S6 TAG or just rule of cool (his hammer is not very impressive in real CC - I can proof that) so: Give ISS a TAG please!

I wonder how that fits on the silverstar primaris.

Anyway the first look of new sectorial seems to be: Fast, HI, BTS and of course optimized. Even with 10 bodys it will have a very good order efficency. I did not do any math but my feeling says you can build similar lists with TA and NCO like IA can but with less points and more efficency. We will see...

Now the newest profile teasers:

I like the DF character Sonya - She can use albedo with her x-visor MR (vs single or haris MSV for example) and each of her options are a diffrent choise (you want SO, SO + LT + 1 SWC or NCO without SO).

Kludgers are fast and have mimetism (Why not?). Apart from this, they look overcosted to me (how can that be?). They are part of the Fast Movers Fireteam.

Waveriders: Something the hacking world of N4 has been waiting for too long: Oblivion B3 with pitchers - just in case you dare to field a HI lt. Mime-3 because why not? They can do a lot of CO. A dangerous unit. And they have the Silverstar keyword. For what reason is the EXP CCW on CC18? Just for Mindwipe?

#make pitchers technical weapons

Moonrakers makes me wonder a bit. Just a roadblock unit? Stop midfielders from going rampage? Or dedicatd trading unit that can be picked up later.

Stormbots are a battle rem with HI status, like Rudra or Vostok but with heavy weapons and they seem cheap on the first look. Interesting combination.

Wreckers do not look impressive for me. I think I would take a Silverprime Optimus for the same cost. AP makes him a bit scary. But to bring the double Chain to work you have to get close ... high BTS seems to be a thing in TB. Still good for his price. Gecko and Co will be a bit envy.

#improve Iggy

Jamie is a scary HI with a big footprint. Again we might see something funny on his base and Guard is now Guardian ;-) Seems to be suprisingly priced well. Mimetism (because ... you got it?) and high BTS. Looks powerful but could be clumpsy to work with (I think I would rather take a second Optistar Silverprime).

In the first movies about TB Carlos said something about "prepared for future things" when talking about enviormental protection (armour and rebreathers) so with their big Taschenlampe they bring light into the darkness and may eventualy find a new race?

 

Well, I assume you are talking about Solar (and others) here with the repeated and unrepentant offenders, but you still threatened Triumph, who was the one being insulted and didnt insult in return. Not that I'm surprised, but you could at least pretend to act impartial.

 

I do not think that the argument of what is and is not key design concept of a faction really can be correctly assessed by the players, sure some key design elements can be clearly seen, but others not, in any case Nomads was always the MI faction, and Sombras are an extravagant MI well suited to be in this design space, now if only they and Intruders got more sculpts.

TAGs are beloved centerpieces for collection and everybody wants to have one, even if Achilles for all terms and purposes is one...

So all sectorials more or less got one.

To be fair the notion of "self moderation" in building lists GW had at the time, was not workable "Who would field 500 goblins?" why was that even a question...

I gather you dislike the company, but no, there was never a EU official banging the door asking questions, or the fear of it, company just took the feedback from the community and implemented it.

 

The latest wave of profiles got me very excited for the upcoming releases, mostly because it might help to keep the sectorial "HI exclusive" without much help from the O-12 reinforcements (aside from Ment my beloved <3).

Samus is odd but I guess that's the kind of character that need to get her final profile and be tested on the table to figure out her niche and real strengh. I really love Sonya though, probably will field her more than necessary each time. I'm curious about Hippo FTO profile since it's the biggest missing piece from this whole preview, considering how important she feel to list building right now.

And for Wrecker, I love that TAG game design: it stands out from every other major TAG to have this unique touch, and it helps being a real competitor to the prime while not denying his role or place, both being totally fieldable within the same army without any troubles.

 

Count me out, I was very happy about SP not having one - besides Achilles - when I was playing it. It added to the uniqueness of the sectorial. Which is one of my main points, when every army gets access to every tool, just with a bit different seasonings, the game gets more bland. It'd be more interesting to see sectorials more varying from each other. Different approaches to what is line infantry, how sectorials' heavy hitters work, the support structure... another example is the commonplace light hacker with Combi/SMG + Pitcher. When most new sectorials get them it feels like lazy design, would be nice to see more variety. SEF, especially back in N2, was an interesting example, and is also an example of a rework done well; back when I started playing it it had no HI, relied mostly on different camo troops - giving your opponent a blank courtesy list is fun - its fireteams were nothing to write home about (to the point that people were asking what's the advantage of playing SEF over vanilla), although old Gwailo fireteam was an interesting, if pricy, detour from the "standard" play. After rework it got some more teeth, like getting some HI, for example, but it's still unique. This is the kind of design I'd like to see more often, sectorial limitations are just as interesting and a reason to play it as are its capabilities. But then again, I like limitations. I played OSS even before it was a sectorial, limiting myself to Vedic troops from vanilla Aleph.

 

That is a stupid generalisation. I for one could happily live without TAGs in sectorials where they don't make sense.