I don't mind seeing faster LI/MI, but I'd really like to see it used more sparingly. O-12 does looks like the stereotypical son of your mother's friend she always compares you with. Yeah, that AP HRL is raising some questions, isn't it. I also really like to see Rudra, but cheaper /s In the end TLB won't break the game, but will definitely cause some bitter feelings amongst those of us who like factions/sectorials that aren't currently in the spotlight. If I hadn't sold my PanO before, I'd definitely consider it now.
I don't really feel like the argument against Nomads not "deserving" Sombras or Gators was ever convincing. It always came from a negative idea of faction identity that was basically built on nothing but a few people's opinions.
Anyway these new profiles seem good. I am not convinced that Torchlight won't get taken apart by hackers though!
Has not people seen oblivion upgrade +1B pitcher on pure core with midfield of two striders with deployable repeater minelayer and two moonrakers as speed bumpers? Let's see who gets hacked.
I'm now more curious as to how much will show up in Vanilla. There's a few here I'd use in vanilla. They could make some of them TB only. The Cyberghost has some competition with the Weaverider now. WCT has a lot more going for it. Better BS, Mim-3, better ARM, Move 6-2, both have pitchers, D-Charges upgrade oblivion. Only 3pts more than the Cyberghost HD+. But both of them together is going to be fantastic! Moonrakers are great cheap midfield skirmishers. The Stormbots is pretty cool. The more expensive Combi+1 B and Damage doesn’t make much sense. Effectively a short range spitfire. I like the Wreakers. They are not that different from other TAGs of their size but unique enough for me. Then the ability to Duo with a Klugder or Psi-Cop Hacker or Stormbot is cool. (Not in vanilla as far as we know) Sonya and Samus would be great in Vanilla too.
Like, Rover HMG, Rover Tinbot, Rover ML, Hellblazer and Waverider HD is 145pts. Then you take the two Striders, two Moonrakers and a Missile Bot That's 245pts and 6 SWC. And your entire army is hackable. And if you lose your Waverider you're getting Oblivioned all over the shop.
My Shakush is currently crying in a corner after he saw the Wrecker profile. Let's break it down: So, the Wrecker gets: Remote Presence, AP HMG, AP B2 Chain Rifles, +3 BTS, +2 MOV, ECM Guided -6, Terrain Total, and +1 CC for... 1 point less. Sure. Let me see what the Skakush gets that makes him 1 point more expensive: +1 BS and +1 WIP. Aha. Makes sense. Great formula, CB!
They have good bts, and with fairy dust they can mostly go through it. They aren’t unhackable, but they are fairly well protected to not get absolutely stomped by a couple of pitchers and semi decent hackers Hackers need to be their priority target number 1
Ok, for now it is not 2-3 top factions yet. Give me 5 most powerful armies in infinity. May be 6. Of course it would be your opinion, so dont worry. No judgement. Why am I asking? To make myself less sad. Because for now in this discussions it looks like nomads and o-12 are the most powerful things in the game x) and everyone forgot Phalanx or Combine... Or Kosmoflot with bear and paratrooper wolf. New Lupa sculpt is grate. Would be lovely captain for Stargrave.
It's all people's opinions. Nomads were built as a toolbox faction, using those tools to work around the advantage other factions had in direct firepower. Advantage in hacking, units like Tomcats, elite MI, Bakunin warbands, few things that could go toe to toe in a shootout, like Szalamandra, cool. Then that gap in direct firepower got plugged. There are also small things, like them getting basically bonus Diggers, or MB with ARM 5 for some reason. This is where this resentment comes from. You can dislike all you want, and it might be inaccurate in part but it's not baseless. And the more the whole argument gets dismissed out of hand, the more entrenched its proponents get. Back to O-12: Previous profiles weren't that questionable, maybe aside from Strider, but these are definitely unfair. Looking for example at Rudra vs Stormot: Rudra has +1 ARM, C+, +1" Dodge, Heavy Pistol, slightly better range for mines, but has to roll for it. Stormbot has +1 BS, +1 WIP, +1 DAM on all BS weapons, not just select ones, large template DTW. It does has slightly worse weapon selection for dealing with armored targets, but has access to impact template. And it's also10 pts cheaper across the board.
It might not be baseless, but that doesn't mean it's based on something that constitutes a solid argument. It's mostly just based on "the vibes are off" to which I think the vibes are on and at this point its just a matter of whether it fits with your idea of the faction in your head. Which I would say is a bit of a pointless endeavour, cos ultimately they got released so clearly they are in fact part of that faction's vibes, like it or not. I am generally on the side of being positive, and also not trying to slag off other people's toys. If you sold your PanO because you think they're boring, then I'm sorry. But you also seem to think the solution is to take away another faction's toys, which I don't like. I'm not about to complain about O-12 getting new cool things, even though I don't play them. I look forward to encountering new units in games and coming up with new tactics to beat them!
Yeah but still order heavy, as you need to first succeed the eng roll and then spend a command token to reform the FT. If it needs to be done, it needs to, but the safest is to delete the hackers, and with their quite mobile TAG (or semi decent hacker) they have some tools to do it, but they are expensive. So I think it’s fair. In all honesty, and I’m a PanO main (so I’m the first one to whine when I see super optimized (Nomads) loadouts/units being a hard match for PanO), I don’t think this sectorial is OP. I feel it’s actually quite balanced. If they go against PanO, they will still get outgunned. They have some extra tools (pitchers / eclipse), but the matchup would be balanced. People seem to forget they have not a lot of cheap troopers, and I don’t see how they can field a lot more than 10 units on the table. Yes they have TacAw to help, but as soon as they lose a unit it will become very hard to keep up, even more than for PanO. And if the matchup is balanced with PanO, then it means the sectorial isn’t OP
@Solar and I'd prefer to be positive about the game as well, but at some point this becomes false positivity. If you're having and voicing a concern, and all you're getting back is "there are no issues, keep smiling, stop whining, move along", it quickly stops being fun. Which is also a factor in why the forums tanked. And I do get that everyone wants to keep his toys, but our factions don't exist in a vacuum, and what one of them gets also affects others that play against them. I also disagree that mere fact that something got released is a final argument. Some things shouldn't get released, or at least not in this form. And ultimately the big issue is that too much stuff is getting released, with most factions' identities getting watered down. Sure, it's my personal opinion, but then again, so is yours. But it's mine that is met with "no issues, stop whining, move along". And at some point I'll just agree and move, which is a pity, because I used to be really excited about this game. To provide Bahram with a heavy firebase. But I feel that the proliferation of Haqq HI took a lot of oomph out of that plan. What I really have no idea what the need was for is Agamemnon.
I think we have had this discussion elsewhere. Its fair to say that I disagree because I think what happens is that people become so aggressively negative that it actually ruins communities. That's 100% happened here on the forums and it's actually pretty sad. There is a way of being critical without being a zealot.
I know I sound like a broken parrot here but please remind one of the core principles of game design: "The point-cost formula is there to be a guide, not a law, and it is expected to be broken". It is not the same to have a Shakush in a sectorial with utterly cheap, disposable but still lethal Daylamies, deadly and still cheap impersonators in the form of Fidays, the single most efficient and lethal Warband of the game in the form of McMurderface and efficient as hell Asawiras compared with a Wrecker in a sectorial where everything is premiun-value costed. This is the same as the old 5th edition of the Warhammer Fantasy Battle where they had to artificially increase the cost of a goblin from 0.5 points a goblin to 2.5 points a goblin or otherwise the 'game engine would break'. Or when a Bretonnian Lineman in Blood Bowl costed 10k gold more than what he should (formula - wise their cost should have been 20k instead of 30k)... or they would make the Bretonnian Team directly OP as they could have a full positional roster, 4 spare bodies and 3 rerolls from the get-go. So please pay in attention that it is not only what the troop has, and how much it is costed, but also what else is included in the package (read, the sectorial) with it.
