Where does it state that this is the only way to be in Camouflaged state? It's a permissive statement not a restrictive statement. Again, you cancel a state by fulfilling one of it's Cancellation clauses.
Basing it on older answers by yourself (specifically those with regards to activating Mimetism to cancel Camouflaged state)
That's fair enough, it's just not always easy to remember. I honestly think having a trooper end up camouflaged and in unconscious state is hilarious. Especially since the rules for Camo state disallows anyone from moving into Base to Base contact.
Well, if the "doctoring" involves a Medikit, I can understand the camo working against the allied troop... XD
He actually is. It’s covered in the order order expenditure sequence. After measuring and dice rolls are made, you move on to the next step, which you then apply your successful order and make ARM/BTS save. http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Order_Expenditure_Sequence
They are both listed at step 8. It is equally valid to "make BTS/ARM save and apply your successful order" as it is the other way around. If it was "and then" instead of only "and" then that would infer a sequence. Otherwise, everything is by default simultaneous. An order could even have multiple effects and armor saves to make, you could go at it one model at a time if you want. Just remember that everything is simultaneous. It is important when it come to scoring killshot. edit - actually i'm not sure anymore that there is no timing. The cancellation timing* is when you received the hit that cause a ARM roll, not when you make your ARM roll. But receiving the hit is done at step 8 when you "apply your successful ARO". So there is sequencing; but that said, i still don't think there is a hard sequencing made between the recamo order and the unrelated hack ARO to know which one came first. *i was looking into timing because another cancellation clause is to have made a non movement. if I say that taking a hit while doing a recamo counts as if I was already camo, then the recamo itself would count as if I was already camo breaking myself out, but then I noticed the timing on that cancellation clause is on declaration of recamo, not on performing (ie. applying the effect) a recamo.
I’m not so sure anymore of my claim either. Mostly because I’ve tried to read the Spanish rules for the order expenditure sequence, in order to answer to your reply, but the wording in Spanish just made me more confused. It merely states on step 8, that you apply the effects of successful order(s), then proceeds to say “for example rolls for ARM/BTS”. I’m not sure though, it’s been nearly a decade since I took Spanish courses in gymnasium, so my Spanish is rusty.
Understood, although I guess with the new forum it would be prudent to point that out. Again though, you are/were privy to the intent of the rules in most(?) cases, so your insight carries a bit more weight than us random forumites.
Why can it not be resolved simultaneously, just like when wounds are gained and lost at the same time? The model enters camouflage and takes a BTS roll, Camouflage is both activated and cancelled so the net result is no change (trooper remains a model).
That's my argument. The only way I can see it not being this way is if you DO introduce an order (that doesn't exist) and that the BTS roll happens before the effects. However, the "receiving a successful hit that..." wording is interesting. Do you count as receiving the hit once the opponent's roll is deemed successful in step 7, or on application of the effects of that successful roll in step 8? I guess the question would be the same as asking, "When does a trooper count as receiving a hit from a DTW?" Step 7 or step 8?
It doesn't matter when the trooper counts as receiving the hit because the effects of that hit aren't resolved until Step 8.
I'd posit that it might matter because there could be a distinction between "receiving a successful hit" and "receiving the effects of a successful hit." If it turns out to be that the two are the same, I'm fine with that, but I'm not sure if we should assume that outright. Say you are hit with a FT. You definitely apply the effects of that in step 8 (burning your ODD/Camo/etc.), but don't you necessarily count as having been hit (for any and all places where that wording exists) before you start applying the effects of that hit?
I have to look at these issues like math to come to any conclusion. For me the important thing to remember is nothing actually happens to my trooper until the whole order is resolved. To @colbrook's point, a 1W Protheon trooper gaining one wound and losing one in a CC attack doesn't reach 2W or go Unconscious, it stays at 1W because the net gain is zero. Which to me sounds the same as entering the camo state and cancelling the camo state in the same order. Tuareg AH + simultaneous order resolution(Step 7: Tuareg succeeds TO camo roll + Ninja KH succeeds normal roll with ARO) Tuareg AH + simultaneous order resolution(Step 8: Tuareg is camouflaged + Tuareg makes BTS save roll) = A Taureg not in camo state (he got hit forcing a BTS save) and taking a wound if he failed his BTS roll. Also note that if the Ninja missed his normal roll the Taureg would enter the camo state. Hopefully I'm not completely wrong... because the implications of a camo'd trooper moving while in LoF to a point they are no longer in LoF and suddenly becoming visible during that first short order if their second short order revealed them... drives me nuts.
