Put it this way, many of us have tried enournous threads based around a resolution for panO lackluster feel, two of which are still on the front page of this forum However CB have never once responded and instead gave us reinforcements, a game mode with a majority negative feedback, instead of implementing some of the profitable solutions we give them on a silver platter to help PanO.
If it helps at all, none of the "lacklustre" forces have had any love outside of a full faction reboot. Even Bakunin only really saw significant updates to one particular section of it's roster. I don't think CB have had the headspace for infinity for a long time. They keep adding new stuff to a game that is already massive and already suffering in many areas with bloat, whilst neglecting older, creaking sections of the game. It just about scraped by because the main variable in the game is the terrain and player skill, but there'll come a critical point where it needs a total overhaul, balance pass and strip down of available profiles
That was N4. We had that. Since then they've said screw it and gone wide instead of tall and stretched themselves thin across tag raId, defiance, reinforcements, the new video game and everything else. They're desperately trying to franchise and as such the key aspects of the game are being forgotten and neglected.
Everything outside of reinforcements is handled either by another team or another company entirely in the case of the Aristeia video game, so I am not sure why you think they would affect the Infinity development.
I've been playing since the tail end of N3, got into it in the winter of 2018. I started with Vanilla Pano and Varuna. I collected everything I could for Pano and I don't think there is much I don't own from the faction that I could get my grubby little hands on. I've missed a few recent releases, but I could build anything I want from each Sectorials, maybe proxying the Aleph stuff. (but that new Aleph Steel Phalanx pack looks amazing and wants me to try Shock Army now!) I haven't really touched Pano since the fireteam rewrite hit, and over the past year I've played very little until the last couple of months. I'm taking Pano to my Satellite tournament this year. 90% sure on Varuna, and I already got my "primary" list locked in. While Pano maybe missing some tools I don't think they are as lackluster as the forum seems to say. Sure, for the big gun high tech faction there are others that "do it better" and not have some limitations that Pano has like...capable doctors or smoke... (Hassians I'm looking at you...) It's solving a puzzle, and I enjoy the puzzle. The game is very complex, and I'd be lying if I understood even half of it properly. But I have been having a lot of fun with my Varuna and I'm looking to keep that going and give Shock Army and NCA solid attempts in the new year. Some of my observations and opinions on the faction currently: Uma Sorrensen SMG Camo profile: is a powerhouse. I've been wavering on trying her out since her profile release. I thought she was cool but a bit over costed. However in my last 6 games she has been my MVP. Pushing buttons, murdering things with burst 4 SMG. Forward deploy to get into nasty positions. I really picking off targets 1 by 1 and then re-camo to get my surprise attack bonus on the next strike. Zulu Cobras: I love these guys, I have since I got into the game. While I haven't jammed anyone in N4, the camo LT for Varuna really helps protect the army. I also like the shell game it creates as I've been running a ton of camo in my Varuna lists (3 Zulu, Uma, 3 helots). Getting a KHD into the midfield off the deployment has been huge to protect my TAG's. It also gives me another midfielder specalist as I'm almost always taking Uma now. Spitfire I think is the most useless of the profiles. Shock Marskman is good to protect a flank. both by being another camo token and having a good gun with xvisor. Helots: Obviously they are good, and even tho I've pretty much resorted to not taking fireteams in Varuna anymore I still run Varuna because of the ava 3 for helots (and LT Zulu). I've been learning how to setup defensive hot spots with them better and love how many orders my opponents waste to take down a 9 point model. Kamau: This is where I start to have problems... I feel I need to take the MSV2 Sniper. Even outside of a fireteam I feel he is an autoinclude. He performs okay on his own, but only if the Helots are covering similar firelanes that way forcing opponents to split burst. There is so much bloody smoke and -6 mimitism in my local meta that I find the MSV is a must. I keep seeing and hearing the benefits of a 5 man fusilier missile fireteam, and I totally understand. The -9 to hit a -6 mimitism piece in cover is still brutal. Patsy: Used to be one of my favorite pieces. Especially in a duo with a Squalo. Lots of order efficiency with NCO and a specialist that can help with the Squalos short range bands. Her loosing Eclipse Smoke in N4 was a huge HUGE nerf that I'm still sore about. If there is one immediate change I would beg and plead for is to have her get Eclipse or even regular smoke grenades. Tiklabang, Squalo MKII, and Uhlan: I love these TAGs. I want a reprint of the old ones so bad. The Tik for sure since it is in MO. I think we should have gotten it instead of the Squalo MKII for the faction as a whole. I included the MKII here because I feel it should have an MSV1 profile. That would be really cool. Max: Should not be under-rated! He slaps in CC, he covers a ton of ground quickly, especially with his dodge. Can jump out to be a WIP13 button pusher. His immnity stacks and NBW are just brutal to play against. And in ARO...Panzerfaust AP! I'd love to see Shock Army get rebooted/refreshed. I think that would help the faction a lot to make it more interesting again for those that feel they are missing something.
Fair enough, so now that excuse is gone, what's the reason infinity development has been in a shady spot?
Personally, because it looks like Infinity development - or at least support - has been neglected. The game needs a comprehensive balance pass, which they started with the love tap they gave i.e. Combined, but then they ruined it with utterly unnecessary things like hitting the armbots instead of following through. The balance is okay enough that it never really feels urget, but there are enough familiar problems that it starts to get tiresome seeing none of them really addressed. But there are fairly obvious interactions in the formula that result in consistently underpriced troops (irregulars with templates, linkable frenzy/impetuous, however CA remotes are prices). Everyone is aware of this, and sometimes it works - Teutons are probably too cheap, but that's defensible in MO because they're harshly limited by AVA and a nessicary tool for dealing with null deploy and template spam - but sometimes its a clear problem. For example, alien gribblies are underpriced for the same reason as Teutons but are AVA T in an army that has Impersonators, arguably the best hackers in the game, and Deployment Zone Parachutist. Closely sticking to the formula here is clearly outmoded, and it needs to either surcharge "solution" units for how many other options an army gets, or be treated as a guideline in these cases. All of this is just the low-hanging fruit, totally aside from the sort of larger audit the game needs to adress issus with the current play patterns, like every army list having a billion direct templates, the skewed cost-risk-return profile of repeaters (and hackers deployed on rooftops) - that sort of thing that starts to smell like an N4.5 ruleset overhaul. That second category is more of a want than a need, but when it looks like Games Workshop is putting more effort into balancing 40k than CB is to their game, which has classically been sold on having a very tightly balanced rulest, that indicates a problem. Just my two cents. Especially - things could be a lot worse, but they could also be a lot worse without much work. To a lot of people, that smells like neglect.
I agree with that final statement. I have honestly only seen good things from Games workshop recently, which I can only commend as it's a big improvement, and I don't play their game. CB on the other hand I've been less than impressed with. As you say their balancing has been less than effective, they have managed to successfully change combined army from the most obnoxious army ever... to still the best army in the game. My biggest issue is that it was N4 that convinced me to get into the game with the enormous simplification of the rules and skills, yet since then they have been consistently complicating the game yet again at every turn, fireteams updates, more skills, reinforcements, just to name a few, half of them are unnecessary and just there to either make money or there as an easier fix for an overarching problem. My other issue is that there are so many units that have been pushed into obscurity and are thematically wonderful, like the jaith cutthroats and Sargosh, but no one's ever going to use them.
At least to me, PanO's coolest looking are their LI, MI, then smallish TAGs like Tikbalang. Would like that to be their focus. Nisse, Bolts, Kamau, Nokken, Bagh Mari, Friars and so on with centerpiece TAGs. If I could time machine and dictate how PanO goes, emphasis on those LI MI plus some TAGs. And when HI do show up they're nice and chunky like the sepulchure knight, Makes them look more like the Shirow Appleseed inspirations as the landmates there are about that size. Makes PanO visually distinct from "everyone's in power armor that makes you Briareos sized" Yu Jing JSA. --- Impossible retcon wishlist aside, would adding Core to PanO be too much, add another Haris to the other sectorials? They're the most highly organized structure of go-getter pennywire efficiency report faction, good teamwork is required for survival.
I like to say, that I like the transition of the KothS very much. It was a good way to get rid of too many knights that not differ very much. It may not fit the fluff of the hightech Pan O that can fit all the technology that can others can barly put into S5 in S2 but from a design choice and rules wise it was good step in my opinion. I liked the way they freshed up MO. The boyg on the other hand is something (I like, but it not works except from the look) that was totaly not necessary.
I will admit that I have more than a decade to play any GW game, thought I have seen games been played, talk to GW players in the shop I play and people from my group play GW games, what I hear from them is quite the contrast to what I read here, I would guess its a case of grass been always greener on the other side, but in any case this should neither be here or there, what other companies can or cannot do, with smaller or vastly more recourses available should not affect what CB does. Yes, I do understand what has been and is been discussed here and do understand the logic and reasoning behind it, plus I do understand the proposed solutions or the lack of solutions to problems. And I will agree a comprehensive sectorial/faction/ system rebalance pass is always nice and welcome, but it does take time and resources to happen.
Full agree, and I wouldn't expect any proper balancing pass before N5. The question is, how much the perspective on what the problems actually are differs between CB and the playerbase.
there are a ton of awesome models for Pano. It's what got me into the game in the first place, that N3 Pano vs Nomads box. Cutter, Tiklabang, Ulahn, Kamau, Nisse, Father Knights (now renamed), ORCs, Echo Bravos, Zulus, Joan, Aquila Guard... all really cool. I totally expect a refresh of the Seraph and Tiklabang in 2024...fingers crossed. Tik is a long shot, but it joined MO in N4 and people love it. The new remotes look good. Would love some extra merc help, specifcally in Varuna. Granted Varuna are the spec-ops team, so doubtful they would use mercs lore wise.... Could we get Fiddler? Someone with smoke?
No more Mercs! IMO they just add fluff to the game. All mercs would be exclusive to NA2. And yes, Smoke and Eclipse is a very powerful ammo that nullifies the core of ARO, so it's a problematic game mechanic in terms of balance, so they've removed or added it to all factions.
At time it joined MO, the Box with Uhlan/Tik went OOP. It was not a fluff/rules thing I guess. And they got the better variant, putting the Seraph on shelf duty.
The Seraph model is OK, I don't think a new model is needed. As for the profile itself, well. I won't say it's crap, but is leaning to the crappy side of the good/crap spectrum.
