I totaly agree with the Sulsa non-RF-Skillset. But it is in competition with the Hulang. At least in a very similar place. FD, Mime-6, CC, specialist. So I would give him to WB ... where it would outclass the Kunai, which is a rarely taken choice (and need a rework anyway, shooty Ninja with BS11?). ISS could also make use of him to conter the low midfield presence. Hwarang in IA is fine and counters the CC weakness. The RF REM variants lacking proper models so it will not hurt anyone to keep them where they are. [/QUOTE]Haetae joins ISS with 0 - 1 Zhian and Wu Ming link with (Zhanying) tag Dokkaebi joins ISS with 0 - 1 Celestial Guard and Aleph link without any unit tags Commentary: ISS is an old sectorial in great need of renewal, but given its huge roster it doesn't want for much in Daebak. Dokkaebi expands ISS ability to fight hackers using hacking while Haetae shores up some of the mid-point heavy gun options in a semi-TAG format. Haetae does step on Wu Ming toes, design wise, but honestly I think that is mainly because Wu Ming are ancient designs. You could argue Celestial Guard is where Haetae should link with as well, but I think spreading them out is more interesting and Wu Ming teams need something both order efficient and cost efficient to lead the charge. Speaking of Celestial Guards, having Dokkaebi be available here allows for a somewhat believable Taowu bluff.[/QUOTE] While I also would place the Dokkaebi in ISS, I would place Hätätä in WB just because they miss a S5 HI. But why not both? [/QUOTE]Sulyong joins White Banner as wildcard So-Ra profile is updated with NCO as standard Commentary: White Banner already has a bunch of Daebak with Jujak. Sulyong, generally, are weak designs with costly statlines and barebones abilities - "medium infantry". Sticking them in NCO-poor White Banner and allowing them to be wildcard is I think the best bet to get them table time. Functionally, they would provided WBA similar services that Rui Shi provides for IA, even though at 6 points more you get Lei Gong who is better in every way as a gun fighter. So-Ra has shown that she is missing a key skill to be worthwhile and in Reinforcement we see that NCO very much can be sufficient to make her worthwhile (that and "combat jumping" for "free"). Not having to compete with Krit like Tai Sheng does will do wonders I'm sure.[/QUOTE] Very well!
We can't place everything in the most well developed and complete sectorial ;) Well. We can. But that's a terrible choice given how much IA and ISS are found wanting at the moment. WBA isn't top tier performing, but they are a fairly modern design with all in all good units. I don't agree Hulang and Sulsa fill anything remotely the same role. Hulang struggles with hacking networks and are distinctly more robust than Sulsa. If anything, a camo Sulsa would compete with Zhencha, but at the moment I'd give a lot to get a decent unhackable option to deal with Morans or other units in repeaters. Short of making hacking gameplay universally undesired or getting a Climbing Plus skirmisher, FD Camo Sulsa fits the bill as good as you can hope for outside of Nomads or Combined. Hulang needs something else to be more relevant, and I don't think Sulsa would play any role in it. Keeping the space competition free only serves to make sure IA as a faction keeps struggling. Heavy infantry paying a premium on Forward Deployment is a shame since using it is such a poisoned chalice for them... Son-Bae Mk12 lacking a miniature I think is a bit besides the point (it's not like Rui Shi or Lu Duan has anything remotely like correct guns). Similar to Hwarang, this unit would be able to bring down the cost of a proper heavy fireteam without locking this behind a huge SWC cost. In addition to also increasing the match between backstory and the game by increasing incentives to pad fireteams with remotes rather than Zhanshi. It's a shame the special Weibing is so bad, but sticking FTO on it would serve the same same purpose and would mean that profile actually had a purpose
While I agree IA needs help, If Sulsa went in to IA then that's the nail in the coffin for the Hulang. I never took it as it was but if I had a better, cheaper alternative, I'll take it every time. Whenever I did take the Hulang the NWi hardly did crap and he was hacked every time. i'd rather they fix the Hulang, than add the Sulsa. The Hwarang on the other hand seem like a natural fit. The Haetae too but there's already a lot of competition for big boys. It would probably be the death of the Yan Huo. Who I'd also would rather have them "fixed". I'm also not convinced that the Sulsa will get camo or Infiltration of any sort. Sure it's in their background, but when has that stopped CB? Maybe if we are lucky, it will get parachutist (Nahab). But they could surprise us and give them Impersonation. Sure WB already has Jujak but I don't see why the shouldn't get more Koreans. All of the Daebak fit in well. They have no big boy, Sulsa seem a natural fit to me. Suyong as said add in needed NCO if nothing else. Dokkaebi are good wherever they are are. It the one troops I'd take in vanilla out of Daebak. ISS need an overhaul. Adding any Daebak is not going to help much. I can see them maybe getting Dokkaebi and that's about it. The rest don't feel "on theme" for me. Sure they all give much needed tools but that's not always a good reason to have something. If I had my way the Su Jian would have been in White Banner when it first came out and ISS would have DA and D-Charges all over the place.
Su Jian makes absolutely no lore sense in White Banner. It's an expensive, high-tech machine that requires specific maintenance and is finely tuned to excel at specific, acute operations. White Banner is a rugged, low-tech faction filled with troopers built to survive in extreme and isolated environments, often for long deployments with minimal support available. You're comparing a Ferrari to an all-wheel-drive hauling truck (and one that actually gets used for hauling, none of this lifted, pavement princess, emotional support vehicle crap in White Banner).
So you agree? Um I think you are getting some of that from your head. The background says expensive and high tech but nothing bout fine tuned maintenance. It's a product of the military not the ISS (imperial cops). With it's climb+ and total terrain, it's perfect for hunting in the mountains, snow and cities of Huang Di. I also doubt a SJ is that much more expensive than a Blue Wolf or Guijia. Where do you get the low-tech from with White Banner? Sure they are lacking in really good hackers but that's about it. IA only has tech in it's HI. They have ok hackers and little else. If it were not for Aleph I'd say ISS and WB are on par. If anything ISS still not having TAGs would make it a little worse that WB in terms of technology.
Sorry, Su Jian makes no sense for White Banner. Su Jian cost would involve its remote presence tech. There's no operator to jump out and disassemble/reassemble it during an operation. For long-haul missions (which the situation on Huang Di would necessitate as the standard), it means that a damaged or lost Su Jian is truly lost. Especially since, being lighter than the Blue Wolf, it would have less accomodation for extra supplies (the Blue Wolf is explicitely built for longer deployments). While the Su Jian might be well suited to navigating the terrain conditions present on Huang Di for shorter excursions, the White Banner Army itself just does not have the resources to operate it long-term. As far as tech goes, White Banner is the lowest tech of any of the Yu Jing factions (...although I'll save my thoughts on the presentation of Yu Jing in general's technical prowess in a game where they've been handily outstripped in most qualities for another thread, but I'd argue that YJ is presented presently as a low-mid tech faction on the tabletop, that just manages to get a pass by scale of production that they're capable of instead of any outright technical competency...). With the exception of the Rui Shi, which is a YJ standard remote, and the Kunai, which is a merc, there's no presence of high-level MSV or mimetism in the faction. Moreover, it's stuck with the basic-level hacking that YJ has always been known for across the board, on top of mostly mediocre hacking platforms (I love my Daofei hacker, but he's good because he doesn't have to hack). This is assisted by the best hacking network access in Yu Jing (mostly tied with vanilla), but that doesn't really say a lot in a faction that is by-default a have-not. As far as the TAG presence goes, the Guijia is noted as being outdated in lore, and the Blue Wolf, again, is meant to be rugged and reliable. The addition of the Shang Ji to the faction is an exception, not a rule, to White Banner's lack of modernity. As a banner army, it's still a faction that represents the pre-Invincibles doctrine of combat, and the environmental situation kind of demands that. White Banner is a faction that is presented in both lore and gameplay as a rugged and ragged group of operators that, for lack of any other options and support that might be days away, manage to make what they have work for them in novel ways.
Getting off topic from Daebak, but Su-jian is also a terrible fit from gameplay perspective. Yes it is good, but what you're doing is disassembling ISS for spare parts and taking placing them in the current favoured sectorial instead of patching up the stuff that's already in there or working with the unique limitations. What is this? Kosmoflot? -- ISS is old and in need of an overhaul. While Ravenseye took it in a fun direction, there are several parts in need of polish, oiling, and general maintenance, not to mention that the Yu Jing part of ISS is quite small. IMO, there is room for another 3-4 units, although some of the external units might need kicking out. However, Daebak, and especially the two units I highlighted, are perfectly poised to expand the sectorial's capability and to help modernize the sector design. In addition to this, Sulsa have the general gear and backstory to replace the last JSA unit. That's got to be a big plus, no? This without encroaching on a remake, but rather be in addition to and complementing a remake's judicial unit overhaul. Daebak allows CB to bring in foreign design elements without expanding Aleph presence. Haetae, being a pure shooting unit, allows CB to let the judicial units focus more on CQB that they kind of lean towards (if they weren't so out of date in terms of cost and rules composition that the melee is essentially pure bloat) Hell, Hwarang could potentially be used to let CB say good bye to Wu Ming. It's been 10 years and with increasing defections to meecenary outfits, maybe they are reconsidering and retiring this form of punishment. Enter Hwarang, a complementary close assault unit to provide the proverbial door kicking that Wu Ming failed to do. This is potential, not a hindrance!
Admittedly I’m a bit negative on Yu Jing. But I truly think it’s still going to be a few years before they even think of doing ISS any justice. Daebak I think has made it clear that they have little interest in them.
I wouldn't go that far as it's all matter of background evolution. From the top of my head : after the Uprising the ISS had several challenges to take-up. - The toll of the war was heavy, especialy because of the surprises attacks on the barracks leading to Celestial Guards cuted off and fighting desperated battles against more numerous enemys. - The security and intelligence system was geopardised and had to be rethinked after such a large squale rebellion was able to take place without notice. - The creation of the Great Japan, allowed the Tatenokai a wider range of operation and it was, more than ever, capable of spreading terrorism and disinformation all around the Human Sphere. - Global public opinion was low about the work done by the ISS, and foreign opinion was even worst than before. The first two points were solved by focusing several units on protection duty, limiting there actions to the Yu Jing territories. The third point lead to the creation of rapid strike forces able to step in as soon as a terrorist cells are identified or almost immediately after a terrorist act against Yu Jing interests. The last point was more complicated to set up. The first step was to embed "Authorised Warcors" in the strikes forces to show their effectiveness and regain the public confidence. The second step appeared when global transportation problems occured following the Circulars attacks by the Combined Army. In a bold move, the Imperial Service proposed to the Party to widen the activities of the strike forces to all military needs. Thus were created the Dragon Claws/Jaw/Punch (whatever name you want them to have) : rapid intervention units serving both as antiterrorist and military response forces. On game side, having units putted on Yu Jing territory defence allow you to justify their removal from the roster. Let say : Celestial Guard (heavy loss, and need them to do the mundane work on the ground), Kanren (focusing on their counter-insergency task), Hsien (dedicated to the Emperor protection), Zhanying and Crane agents (you need them to investigate). So, the rest can be added in the Reinforcements: - Wu Ming as main shock troops (Jujak style) - Bao Troops as ranged troops with visors and utility (Sulyong style) - Pheasants as specialised unit (Hacker, NCO, CoC...) - Su-Jian as big guy (with TA) - Authorised Warcor (1 regular Warcor for the fun) - Adil in Crane armor and Major Lunah (just because) - Various REMs This is nothing I've seriously thought about, so there must be a lot of missed things in this idea and I just did it for fun (and sorry for all the grammar and other spelling problems)
Until the writer makes it thematically correct. Anyway, ISS needed to be updated. Now we are looking at either it being killed off or taking a few more years for anything meaningful. For next years re-fresh I'm already putting money down on Tunguska or Onyx.
All sounds like a perfectly good excuse for the ISS to introduce the Jingwei Mobile Enforcement Division.
Maybe? Them or Exrah. Or could be both. They could do other at Gen Con. Personally I wish they would just fix what they have rather than make new ones.
Def agree I'd rather see some sectorial updates, but I think adding another sectorial to O12 is a likely and sensible addition. Another Aleph sectorial could also be a worthwhile addition, but I have no idea what on earth that would look like. Aleph feels p split rn between SP and OSS, with very little sitting in between. An Exrah sectorial could also be potentially interesting, but I think I'd be more interesting if it was in NA2 rather than CA. A Korean sectorial is also a possibility, but idk, it just doesn't feel likely to me for some reason. Gabqar Khanate also feels like a possibility given that we know CB has expressed interest in developing them in the past, already has a decent in game presence, and has a distinct vibe, but Haqq probably doesn't need the love rn (as much as it pains me to say that). I think the ideal set of releases for next year would be something like a new O12 sectorial in the first half of the year, and then like, an NCA/SAA and ISS update in the second half of the year.
Spoiler: Endsong Fluff Two new wormholes appeared in Concilium as an aftereffect of the T'zechi cataclysm: Styx and Tartarus. A message was sent from the Digester to these wormholes just prior to the explosion. Also, a new Wormhole (Abraxas) appeared in Sol system when the Digester copy here detonated. It stands to reason that those messages were sent to someone with a vested interest in the whole Seeker/Protector conflict. So, it might be someone entirely new. It would be fun to get to see the faces of some of the commentators on the earlier books, like Cal3fex Observer. Its name sort of implies that there are those that do things other than observe.
As Deabak is a "mini-sectorial" for RF I strongly doubt we will see a real sectorial from one of the RF groups so soon. Again. Exrah are also RF. Why should they do a sectorial for them so soon? Are the sale-rates that promising? And yes, I also wan´t to see a some updates - ISS for example - but for the CB new and shiny seems to be more profitable. To be honest, new stuff is always good to make ne minis. It says: New sectorial. Something completly new would be a new faction or at least a sectorial for an alien race, but we have three already for the EA and Tohaa are on the digi composter ;-)
According to the figures that have come out the last few years. Yu Jing and Haqqislam have the least number of figures. I understand the highest selling factions need to be first but they also can’t glut the market too much with them ether. 2020-2023 Total new figures Combined Army: 76 Nomads: 76 PanO: 55 O-12: 51 Ariadna: 42 Aleph: 38 Yu Jing: 37 Haqqislam: 23 The factions that have the most potential to add a new sectoral to are: O-12 Haqqislam Yu Jing Aleph Combined Army O-12 only has one sectoral and has good potential to get a second. It already has a lot of troops not in a sectoral, so they wouldn't need many new figures to make up the difference. Haqqislam could get a new sectoral OR they could refresh QK. Yu Jing could also get a new sectoral OR refresh ISS. It’s going to be hard for them to do an Aleph sectoral without some good fluff to back it up. They already feel complete. Nomads and CA took the oxygen out of the room the last few years, so I think they are least likely.
I’m not sure if Daebak is going to be a new sectoral any time soon. IF Daebak is a going to be the new sectoral, it’s going to need a lot of new troops. This could actually be a reason for it. It’s all new figures CB can sell. It’s a good reason for Exrah as well. CB previously said with JSA that they JSA was too different from the rest of YJ. I think Daebak is visually similar to YJ, but playability similar to JSA. We now have a CC Frenzy HI, Robot HI, CC oriented Skirmish, etc. Assuming they get all the Remotes, they still need basic troops (could be Zhanshi). Troops that can be Lt., specialists, etc. They could be existing YJ troops, but they are not “Korean”. This is why I think they will be a part of the rest of sectorals at some point. I think WB will get most due to already having Korean troops, then some in IA and ISS. I at least hope that’s the case. I’d like the Sulsa, and Dokkaebi in WB. I’m not sure if the they have said any percentages of ethnicities is on Huang Di.
Not to worry. Haetae are veterans of the Korean Zhanshi detachment's (and humanity's) first contact with the Morats, but that was long ago and they now, just like Zuyong, recruit from other places than just the Korean ethnicity. The only troop that is exclusively (or near enough) Korean is Dokkaebi. A Korean sectorial would definitely have Zhanshi, it is written deep in both Haetae and Sulyong lore. I don't think it is fair to say they play like JSA. JSA is, ostensibly, marked by assassins and impetuous troopers. Regular, mentally stable, troopers are a bit of an exception. So far we have one trooper that is almost a Domaru and we have one that is only going to be almost Oniwaban if they get Hidden Deployment and Infiltration +6, and I wouldn't bet on the latter as that seems to be something they don't want in Yu Jing. The mere fact that Haetae is so heavily tuned to be good at shooting kind of puts the comparison to JSA, famously the sectorial that struggles the most with the 25+" rangebands, to rest To me a potential Daebak sectorial seem to be more of a variation on White Banner, perhaps with a bit of ISS sprinkled in. Not just because they share a trooper, but the mix seems to land somewhere in the own side's mid field with a mix of reasonably melee competent troopers and reasonably competent gun toting troopers.
