Back in the days with 2 pages of different hacking programs there was a programm called "Blackout" to disable Comm equiptment. Burst 1, DMG 15, disable comms equiptment with short skill or ARO. Back in N3 @inane.imp pointed out: and thats something I can agree on a 100%. Found in a lovely old thread in the N3 Archives Hacking in HSN3 – Summary and Rules Clarifications | Corvus Belli Community Forum
Maybe lay off the gaslighting if you want to defuse a straw man accusation. This is not about Nomads specifically. Nomads are just best positioned to do this tactic because spreading hacking networks is their schtick, and sine they have a community perception of favouritism, so they tend to catch the most flak for it.
Yeah, this is a critical piece of rules missing, but it still wouldn't help you hit the repeaters after they've been placed because repeaters didn't trigger AROs. You had to either disable them on models passing by before they deployed them (hard) or do it in your active turn while everyone ARO'd directly at your hacker with their programs (basically you sacrifice the Hacker to disable the repeater). So I'd like to see it back, and repeaters triggering AROs (both for shooting and hacking) when used. But, also importantly, Fast Pandas need to be nerfed. All of the Perimeter weapons are ridiculously strong, but at least others are one-use; sure, Crazy Koala is deadly but once it's used it's used. Fast Panda repeater stays there, on top of a building, untargettable. While it was on an Interventor it wasn't so bad but now that it's on a Heckler it's basically a guaranteed way to deploy unhitable repeater wherever you want it.
For sure, 100%. Even if guided wasn't changed at all, I'd still like SP to have a revision applied to them because it's not like every faction can access efficient guided set ups. I think all of this is very agreeable. I think units like Hecklers and Hunzakuts need to be very carefully looked at, mostly in terms of their cost. No one complains about the Crocmen FO and it's deployable repeater in vPanO and VIRD, and I think a part of that is because it's a far more significant investment at around 30 points. Personally, I think if repeaters are changed in the ways discussed, all you might need to do is maybe touch Fastpandas. Maybe make them SWC costed, or make deploying perimeter weapons a full order.
Well, duh! Not ALL units need to be able to affect ALL other units, and Deactivator is a good example of a useless skill anyways, so I see no problem with hackers needing to use their gun or knife when faced by a non-hackable unit... "You dare shoot me? I will pwnzor your signal into our GMso the bullets won't hit me!" is current RAW, as funny and surreal as the situation may look like when the shooter is one of the lowest tech people available (let's say a Hardcase) against an Interventor... The practical problem with this was having to get inside the hacking zone first, and aside of specifics like Scylla's Devabots (in IMP state) you would have to drop your own repeater in order to blackout the enemy's without facing all of their hackers' ARO. Also, back then this was a problem only for hackers, HI and TAGs, hackers merely gaining a chance to blindly dodge against non-hackable enemies entering the Repeater's ZoC, so it's not surprising for it to be an obscure strategy, with the extra of how much more troops with Pitcher we've seen crop up since Operation Wildfire's launch. This would demand a depart from current rules, in which you can target only the model(s in case of coordinated, fireteams, peripherals, etc...) consuming the order.
I think the problem of the guided missile is that the reactive play does not have a choice after a repeater lands (if not a hacker). Of course you can dodge to move away from the hacking area, but that increases chance to be targeted. If you reset, then there is only reset until you get targeted. After being targeted, what you can do is just dodge the missile until they have no order left or the targeted one dies. There is no dodge to improve cover, go prone to gain total cover as F2F shooting in this spotlight-guided missile shenanigans. Every successful reset or dodge feels meaningless and feels like just an order delay of the inevitable fate. Not only the guided missile is strong, it feels bad as a reactive player. That’s why people ask to remove the targeted state after a single guided missile fire or enable ARO to the repeater. I think another indirect solution can be a change to reset, enabling the model succeeded a reset to move as a successful dodge, away from the source of hacking (hacker or repeater). This might not have a significant impact, but can help a bit to the models on the edge of the repeater range. Edit : And somewhere middle point of current targeted system and targeted removed after single guided missile, what about targeted state being removed after a successful dodge?
It's either that or you completely misunderstood his argument. You were wondering why AD repeater droppers didn't have the same issue - he explained it pretty clearly.
Please stop making me search the lexicon for odd words.. "gaslighting"... that is quite a harsh word and accusation if it means what I understood it means, I do not discuss in such manner and engage the discussion in good faith, I am sorry if you feel this way, but I do not do so. I will guess we are talking about different things or we are understanding the conversation been of a different subject, Ill let you restart it in what we are discussing. There is also the perception that PanO cannot hack so people tend to ignore PanO repeater network. I think there is a big misunderstanding there, my perspective was on the grounds of an AD hacker, the aforementioned Hellcat would more or less have roughly the same impact as a single pitcher user, the reply was on a pitcher network with multiple users and restocks from baggage, of course in this sense the pitchers are more efficient. I will accept I tunnel visioned from the video and set myself a scenario concerning the second round of the finals and not a generic discussion about pitchers and AD hackers.
I am not sure why so many of you waste time arguing with the guy who is in permanent CB can do no wrong mode for at least 6 years now. I know it hurts he is a playtester for this game, but realistically you just waste time. I solved issue with Deactivator being useless and Pitcher/Pandas/Guided being such an issue in another thread, change Deactivator to automatically deactivates all deployables in ZoC. Would this be enough, probably not, personally I would remove Guided from the game as I hate how it plays in general. But at least it would make Deactivator actually good and you could at least guarantee no one can Pitcher/Panda at your LT turn one and Isolate it with 2 orders.
Eh, I don't know. You can easily say it's similar to how peripherals are always activated even if you don't want to do anything with them, except in this case you actually do want to do something with that repeater. Also, in my experience new people usually assume they can target the repeater when it is used and need to be told that no, you cannot.
I am not sure the potential unintended issues a rewrite like this would worth it, the only practical change it would make would be that deployable repeaters/ pitchers would be deployed in places their target (and potentially other units that could shoot them) cannot see them.
I think that is the point, making repeater positioning an actually tactical decision. At the moment, you can just pick any arbitrary point that covers the enemy troopers you want, even if it's literally in front of their face and they can't do anything about it.
They are already being deployed in places the enemy needs to burn as many orders as possible or even cannot reach, however... Making the Deactivator skill a "ISO state to target Piece of Equipment, no LoS required, range 0-8 inches" would be quite balanced... you drop a pitcher, my engineer will make it useless with his next order. This still does not address the problem of not being able to react against a pitcher being dropped inside your ZoC but out of LoS, but...
Its a pity that there is no device that can be used to potentially kill enemy hackers through their own repeater network to help mitigate this. But as some people have kept saying for the life of N4, its not a problem, just stab/shoot the enemy hacker.
So as someone looking to get back into infinity i take it i should just netlist GML lists or Phalanx eclipse lists?
Tbh, outside of specific threads for faction advice I'd mostly ignore the forums as a newer player (the Infinity Discord is better for this and better in general tbh). It's ultimately not that imbalanced (we don't have anything as bad balance wise as Eldar in 40k 10ed), especially if you are not playing at the ultra high tier sweaty competitive level. If you give an experienced player a mid tier faction and match them against a less experienced player with a top tier faction, I'd put my money on the former winning. And while asking for list advice is fine, netlisting is not a great idea. To get the most out of your list you want to have a feel for each piece and what it's contributing to your gameplan, and that can often be a pretty stylistic thing. For example, Interplanetario winner Weran had several divergent picks in his Vanilla Nomads list (like the Evader HMG, Armand Le Muet) from the 'standard' vNomads set up, which came down to him having a very strong idea for what he wanted his gameplan to be.
It's just that reading through this stuff reminds me of why i stopped playing infinity in the first instance
I do think the forums can often be a pretty negative space - even the ultra sweat environment that is the IGL Discord (which is also p good btw), is less negative and more upbeat than here. I think it's worth engaging with the forums because it's the space that CB seems to monitor the most closely, but I think for discussion of the game itself, there are way better places.
