The more it is repeated, the more likely it is that CB will take notice. I think it's fair to allow feedback to be repeated.
This is still anecdote rather than data, but I still haven't had a game where Reinforcements have arrived before round three, for either player.
I have yet to have a game that my reinforcements came before third turn, either playing first or second, my opponents reinforcements have come on second turn occasionally, but I do not remember if arriving at third turn was the majority of occasions, I think it was.
Just an observation; if reinforcements are in a majority of cases arriving on T3, then these rules have at the very least succeeded in reducing the tempo away from the heavy alpha strike meta that several players have been complaining about.
Perhaps that it the case, but when it results in Player 2 winning 90% of the time, it's now become a crappy experience for Player 1. Also I'm not going to waste paying money on new Reinforcements models if they only ever see the table of Turn 3.
The more I play reinforcements the more I very much dislike dropping reinforcements being optional. It leads to a lot of scenarios where the actions of both player's main sections are somewhat irrelevant, and all that matters is what the reinforcements do. I think this issue would be alleviated if players had the option of trying to control the tempo by killing stuff to force a premature reinforcements drop. I'm also pretty disappointed that ITS 15 hasn't really adapted any missions for reinforcements. Zone control missions are still pretty broken, simple last turn button pressing missions like Acquisition are pretty broken, it's bit naff frankly. It's a shame, because I do think with a few tweaks reinforcements could be really great, even leaving aside issues like commlink being rather pointless in it's current form. The format really shines in more complicated missions like Unmasking or Mindwipe, but that's because those missions are not very conducive to just pressing buttons at the end of the game and spending the rest of your turn trying to kill stuff. I also think reinforcements has largely succeeded in making alpha strikes more difficult - they are just as devastating, but harder to pull off given you are working with a smaller order pool and less SWC on turn 1. I think the base format of 250 points 4.5 SWC is kind of interesting, and maybe better than the stock 300 points? I think the factors that make alpha striking harder like a smaller order pool and less SWC still hold strong in 250/4.5 even without reinforcements.
Suggestion: two new skills for the Commlink trooper that, instead of moving the commlink into the Reinforcements group, lets them: Skill one: move ONE unit FROM the Reinforcements group TO the group in which the Commlink trooper is Skill two: SWITCH the Commlink trooper with ONE trooper in the Reinforcements group. Obviously, this motivates using TAGs and other very expensive troops as reinforcements without being forced to just drop one tag and one engineer or two "tachimotos" (now gone, but the name is a good way to refer to those troops) I think there is also this "reverse game of chicken" in which no player wants to see Reinforcements coming up before they have secured some points, possibly inverted in missions that score at the end of the game (in which forcing the Reinforcements becomes the objective). This also makes them come in turn 3, when both players are most tired from the game, inserts a stop in the game's flow, and extends the third turn (which used to be the fastest due to force erosion, or even not played because of Retreat or too clear of a checkmate). On thing that needs to be taken into account is that there are two kind of players in every game, one wants light (cheap & numerous here) builds and another wants elite (expensive and small size here) ones. 300pts is not only the format in which the game has been played for more than a decade as default (and tested, too), it's also the compromise between those that would be happy with a 10 troop 400pts list and those that want to play only cheap units for very specific roles. That bein said, nothing prevents anybody from making tournaments at 250pts, I think. I've seen several at 400pts, but none lower than 300pts, however.
It as a rhetorical question, it has been repeated on page 5 and 6 (and 4 really) enough times that more times is just unnecessary clutter clogging the thread.
Some people like playing with the new reinforcements rules, others don't. This doesn't tell us whether the game mode should be used in the majority of ITS 15 events or not. But what it DOES tell us, what nobody can deny, is that if you run an ITS 15 event, your decision to use reinforcements or not isn't going to please everyone. If you run reinforcements, a number of people in your infinity scene (above zero) will be disappointed. If you don't run reinforcements, same thing, with the added insult that people who bought minis that can only be used for reinforcements, can't meaningfully bring them along other than as proxy miniatures. ITS 15 has done nothing to address that. Now people are waiting on an 'annex update' to address that, as well as commlinks. For me, this is the unique thing about reinforcements. It's not just an optional game-mode in the same way that spec-ops or soldiers of fortune is. It's a real division in the infinity community, and the best hope for fixing that is an update to the rules that makes reinforcement play compatible with non-reinforcement. But you can imagine the problems that an effort like that would face--you then have some seriously asymmetrical game mechanics that is likely to make the meta even more controversial than it is now. Perhaps the best hope at this point is that the community very heavily comes down on one side or the other. Either reinforcements just becomes accepted and the people who don't like it just begrudgingly go along with it just like so many other inventions (free units in ITS, weird zones in missions, inexplicable profile updates), OR, the community somehow gets over the game mode and trudges on with 300pts standard despite the issues with GML and eclipse smoke.
Thread cleaned up. @Vaulsc that is an interesting observation, I am not sure if Reinforcements are a marmite kind of gameplay, at least not yet, there are a few tournaments involving reinforcements, I think we will get a better picture as more and more happen. There is definitely a desire for 300 vs 250+100 to be a reality, I do hope this will work in the end.
This my main problem with RF. I have to spend money (and I have several factions) on miniatures that I can only use with one (1) game mod. And that mod also look rushed. With a tax that makes list building more diffecult and is definitly no enjoyment. A mod that also can have (too) great impact on missions. The Yu Jing box is a good example. Because it has only minis that can only be used in RF. It has 6 well done minis that can join shelf guards units like ML Jujak while I play normal games or see game time in a RF game for only two rounds if it goes well (or one, when not, depending on the situation). With the relase of ITS 15 I expected something special for RF. Something that will promote playing the mod. But there is nothing. Its just another turnament mod. We not even get some special missions, designed with RF in mind. Which could make RF troop actual objectives. Kill more RF points for example, get your RF in the enemys DZ, control zone XY with your RF whatever. Maybe the new official 20x20 missions will work well with RF.
I really hope we get to play reinforcements vs non-reinforcements lists. It represents an entirely new set of challenges to consider.
Every time a thread like this comes up it's a new déjà vu... Fireteam can be created with troops from some units... The game is a disaster, what a missed opportunity, this has not been tested, they dont know how to fix the game. In the ITS, scenarios are going to be played and a deck of objectives is going to be used... The game is a disaster, what a missed opportunity, this has not been tested, they don't know how to fix the game. The miniatures are going to have a silhouette... The game is a disaster, what a missed opportunity, this has not been tested, they don't know how to fix the game. The same thing over and over again. Oh, Infinity... that disastrous game full of missed opportunities, untested and its creators don't know how to fix.
Soldiers of Fortune and SpecOPs, interesting choices. When and why are these extras included in the ITS? In fact they were very popular at the time of their inclusion. After playing the Paradiso Campaign, players wanted to continue being able to play their SpectOps. Generic armies and most sectoral ones have not always had mercenary troops available on their lists, in fact at that time it was extraordinarily exceptional... and people wanted to play with those mercenary troops that were the prize of the ITSs. Over time and due to other changes in the game (such as the uncontrolled proliferation of mercenary troops, which is a fail), they have lost popularity, it is completely true... but at that time, they were not a fail at all.
It's as simple as adapting them, and reduce their presence (bloat). Instead of Aida swanson, Krakot renegars, Cube Jaeger, etc... make a single profile of "Hunter mercenary" with a Viral mines profile, a Metachemistry profile and a Parachutist paramedic one. Then another "Sniper mercenary" with a MSV1+Mimetism sniper rifle, another with Battle Ravaged, another with Sixth Sense and Missile Launcher, etc... (some would remain in their "native" sectorials, like Aida in Shasvastii or Le Muet in Tohaa, for example). "Cleaning" those unique profiles after the season ends into a category would reduce the bloat, while allowing the usage of the original models anyway. As for the triphammers, diggers and beasthunters, I can only say how tired I am of playing a military, special operations, elite troops game with Jimmy the Miner who was drafted because hey, he was there and can hold a cheap weapon! It's not like he will survive the mission, right.
You are absolutely right in what you say (I agree with you 100%), the problem is not the Extra, the problem is that in recent years, they have gone from 5 or 6 mercenary troops to... I don't even how many troops are there now, maybe 30? That's the problem, the uncontrolled proliferation of mercenaries and that most armies have access to them without the Extra... a new box of Operation is coming out, mercenary... a new book is coming out, mercenary... there's a new session of ITS, mercenary... there's a special event, mercenary... there is none of the above, mercenary... mercenaries everywhere.
