O-12 and Reinforcement Rules

I had the same thought when I first read the rules. After playing with the reinf mode, I’m not sure about the non lethal game plan. It’s a great meme list, but I don’t think it’s actually strong.

You have to be very careful to avoid triggering AROs from isolated/immobilized troops, as it gives them opportunities to break out of their state for free. It feels real bad to immobilize something, only to have it escape with an ARO dodge on your next order. Similarly, if you spend a bunch of orders trying to E-Marat something, you probably won’t have orders to actually kill it afterwards.

Non lethal ammo is a great tool against Reinf, but I wouldn’t rely on it as the primary win con.

 

What are your opinions about reinforcements and O-12?
I have to say, that I really struggle to write a list that I'm staisfied of.
250 Points is really low for O-12,so that I mostly end up with one combat group with 10 Units and reinforecments abeour 90 Points (I necer reach the 100)
And the I screw the whole list because alle units in Group 1 are important, none is expandable... if I lose 100 points of these, the game is already lost...

How about you?
How does your lists look?

 

250/100 is just asinine and has ZERO redeeming qualities. It takes the worst part of playing at 300 and cranks it to eleven, in that you can be trivially alpha struck into irrelevance and locked out of playing the game. A 300/100 split is better. Being forced to take a 20point line trooper doesn't help with the point crunch much either.

O-12 benefits greatly from it especially with counter strike/CQB pieces that can appear exactly where they want to within their optimal engagement distance (all hail the Bronze). Starmada I think may benefit more from Reinforcements than vanilla but I need to test more.

This is what I've been testing. though I do intend to cut Andromeda.


vo12 - reinf test
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GROUP 1 3 1
BRONZE REINF. (Specialist Operative) MULTI Rifle, Heavy Riotstopper / Pistol, E/M CC Weapon, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 54)
CASANOVA REINF. Submachine Gun, Nanopulser(+1B), Shock Mines / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 30)
MENT REINF. Heavy Riotstopper(+2B) / Assault Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15)

GROUP 2 10
ALPHA (Lieutenant [+1 Command Token], Strategos L1]) Light Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 24)
KAPPA (Commlink [+1], Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 22)
CHO (Chain of Command) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 20)
BLUECOAT Submachine Gun, Heavy Riotstopper / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 16)
RAZOR (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun, Flash Pulse, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 32)
CYBERGHOSTS (Hacker, Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle, Pitcher ( ) / Breaker Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 21)
ANDROMEDA (Forward Deployment [+8"]) Submachine Gun, Flash Pulse, Zapper, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 30)
RAPTOR (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle, Light Flamethrower ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 42)
DEVABOT Heavy Flamethrower / PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 5)
PEELER Heavy Machine Gun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 25)
OMEGA Heavy Machine Gun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 47)

GROUP 3 2 1
KYTTÄ Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
KYTTÄ Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
WARCOR (Sixth Sense) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)

3.5 SWC | 395 Points

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Yes, the mandatory commlink is annoying. I've had about 4 games of reinforcements so far, in those games I think it was more fun in 3 out of the 4.
250 is awkward for the main body of the list, in my example list I was very limited on big guns and had pretty much one ARO, one mobile attack piece, one long range attack, etc. Going in I was not really happy with this list at all.

This list was run for Panic Room. I did terribly on my first turn as my opponent opted to alpha pretty aggressively with a Vostok in a Haris, killing my Peeler and setting up watching the main route into the objective room. My first turn my Epsilon died to ARO, and my Raptor got isolated by a Heckler in the objective room. Next turn the Raptor dies, and with the Epsilon and Peeler out my reinforcements dropped top of my turn two. My opponent did not lose any models until my Varangian berserked into the objective room, after my reinforcements dropped.
Ment Agents with B4 riot stoppers are hilarious. A lot of gluing and shooting and my reinforcements had a nice castle built up in the objective room that lasted long enough to get a 7-3 win despite losing the alpha strike.

Given some tweaking in future I think O-12 and Starmada can be fun in reinforcements and got some good profiles, particularly the Ment Agents, Vidocqs, Nightshades, and Casanova being linkable were all fun in the tournament I played.

Panic Room
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GROUP 1 10 1
RAPTOR (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle, Light Flamethrower ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 42)
DEVABOT Heavy Flamethrower / PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 5)
CYBERGHOSTS (Hacker, Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle, Pitcher ( ) / Breaker Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 21)
VARANGIAN Submachine Gun, Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 12)
OKO Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 16)
ROADBOT Marksman Rifle, Light Shotgun(+1B) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 26)
EPSILON Heavy Machine Gun, Nanopulser / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 35)
KAPPA (Commlink [+1], Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 22)
LAMBDA (Doctor) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 16)
LAMBDA (Engineer, Deactivator) Combi Rifle, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 16)
YUDBOT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
CHO (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)

GROUP 2 4
CASANOVA REINF. Submachine Gun, Nanopulser(+1B), E/M Mines / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 30)
JACKBOOT REINF. (NCO) Spitfire, Light Riotstopper / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 30)
VIDOCQ REINF. (Doctor) Boarding Shotgun ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 23)
MENT REINF. Heavy Riotstopper(+2B) / Assault Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15)

GROUP 3 1
PEELER Heavy Machine Gun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 25)

4.5 SWC | 347 Points

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One thing I have found is the Alpha is basically mandatory, primarily due to having counter intel and CT's being able to strip from a single combat group list.

Not the kind of place the raptor wants to be, they do not like brawling with midfield specialists. KHD raptors excel at throwing up cybermask (only useful thing a KHD is good for beyond being a glorified specialist operative), running across the table and assassinating something (or often multiple somethings) extremely valuable then be obnoxious in their back field in their turn and be something they have to deal with.

In my last game he stage dove an IA list and took out the Zanshi hacker, Lei Gong and Krit from the Shang-ji fireteam and put a wound on the Hai dao sniper before being put down. While above average kill count for most games, it's typically how the piece performs.

If ytou aren't getting good trades with a Raptor you're under utilizing it.

Best 15 point filler in the army, the Ment is great for busting enemy holds and bunkers.

 

You're also down a body in the army, the kappa basically refunds its combat slot, so you could have fit something else in like a warcor or made some downgrades to fit in another body.

 

The Alpha is great, unfortunately wasn't an option in Starmada but it's hard to not take in vanilla.

Panic Room is an awkward mission, only played it one other time. The Raptor KHD was supposed to be cybermasked and sit in the room since it has templates and NCO to up the scoring. I wound up being too short on orders since I had to avoid the Vostok to even get into the room. In my other games she's run closer to your experience, pushing up close to the enemy DZ in cybermask and being a pain or murdering a Rudras Haris.

I wanted to keep points down to make triggering the reinforcement drop easier. In retrospect the warcor might've been another ARO to slow up the Vostok Haris a bit more, but that's what I get for not being able to pre-test this list.

 

I started looking into the O-12 RF. I've got to say I'm not finding them very good. It's seems impossible to make a 5-man core. The cheapest guys are AVA2 and the rest are too expensive. I could hardly make a Bronze haris. The only things that can make it are the cheapest Bronze and two of the cheapest Ments. That's it! Nothing else fits. Why they hell did they even make it a t haris? I admit I already dislike the Reinforcements but this just seems crap to me.

 

Bronzes have Tacaware on their Reinforcement profile which compensates for not having bodies. 5 man cores in Reinforcements are a pipe dream outside certain factions like Ariadna so I wouldn't worry about that.

A Bronze HSG, Cuervo, and a Ment bring you great close range firepower with the burst 3 Heavy Shotgun, burst 4 SMG and Hvy Riotstopper, and a couple of burst 2 AKs if you need a longer range potshot. Cuervo can carve things up in CC while the Bronze and Ment are specialists. CoC can also be useful in a reinforcement as it makes an obvious/aggressive Lieutenant more viable.

Although only 3 bodies it's starting at midfield with 4-6 orders (Commlink and Command Token) which is enough to create some havok.

Bronze HSG, Vidoq MMR, and Ment hacker gets another potential order from the Vidoqs NCO and give more mid/long range firepower, the Ment could also be a cheaper variant to upgrade the Bronze's gun, or a Sekudroid for a little beef.

 

Has anyone had some experience yet with O-12 reiforcements?

I almost feel like the Bronze is a no-brainer. The TA Brozne and NCO Vidocq plus what else you can fit. As haris will have plenty of orders. Especially if you have a Hector Lt.. I think that limits your main force too much however due to his price. It's too bad Stratego can only work in the Lt. own group. Otherwise Saladin would be great. The only 5-man core team is what I came up with below. It's doesn't seem that bad.


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5
VIDOCQ REINF. (Multispectral Visor L1) MULTI Marksman Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 25)
VIDOCQ REINF. Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 19)
MENT REINF. (Hacker, Hacking Device) Light Shotgun ( ) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 20)
MENT REINF. Heavy Riotstopper(+2B) / Assault Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15)
OKO REINF. Combi Rifle, Adhesive Launcher(+1B), Flash Pulse, AP Mines / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 18)
1 SWC | 97 Points
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GROUP 1 5
VIDOCQ REINF. (Multispectral Visor L1) MULTI Marksman Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 25)
VIDOCQ REINF. Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 19)
MENT REINF. (Hacker, Hacking Device) Light Shotgun ( ) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 20)
MENT REINF. Heavy Riotstopper(+2B) / Assault Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15)
SEKUDROID REINF. Adhesive Launcher, Flash Pulse(+1B) / Heavy Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-9). (0 | 20)
1 SWC | 99 Points
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3 1
BRONZE REINF. (Paramedic) Heavy Shotgun, Akrylat-Kanone ( | MediKit) / Pistol, E/M CC Weapon, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 54)
VIDOCQ REINF. (Multispectral Visor L1) MULTI Marksman Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 25)
VIDOCQ REINF. Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 19)
0.5 SWC | 98 Points
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3 1
BRONZE REINF. Heavy Machine Gun / Pistol, E/M CC Weapon, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (1.5 | 58)
MENT REINF. Heavy Riotstopper(+2B) / Assault Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15)
JACKBOOT REINF. (Engineer) Submachine Gun(+1 Dam), Light Riotstopper, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
1.5 SWC | 98 Points
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My go-to is Ment, bronze and Casanova in Haris. That's kind of an all-rounder that let me deal with anything while bringing enough power and resilience (but no so many orders).

 

This basically what I've been using for since the beginning of reinforcements, works great, and best at busting the bunkers that Ive been finding people set up going into turn 3 to try and deny points.

 

I don't understand the nerf of the Deva spitfire to MSV1... it's like they want to force people to use Epsilons all the time :(

 

Also 1.5 instead of 1 swc and only 2pts cheaper. It's like they didn't want you to actually use it.