Can you touch yourself?

Discussion in '[Archived]: N4 Rules' started by inane.imp, Nov 13, 2020.

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  1. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to be honest with you; I don't really see how it could possibly be construed that a silhouette does not have any part of it in contact with another part of it. If this game system was leaning more heavily on a buffing and debuffing mechanic where it is important to have separate naming for self, any friend, and any other friend, then I could see this being an issue, but as is I get the feeling that the issue is carrying luggage from other game systems rather than this game's system.
     
    Dragonstriker and inane.imp like this.
  2. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    No one is arguing that a silhouette does not have any part of it in contact with another part of it. But that rule section clearly talks about "interaction between Troopers" and "The Troopers are positioned with their Silhouettes in contact with each other." meaning you need two to tango.

    Equally, the rule section about LoF talks about "any point of the volume of a Model, Token, Marker or valid target to any point of the volume of another." which is stated as being the reason you can't ever see yourself (even if you fulfil all the required conditions for LoF). I'm sure everyone who played that you can't see yourself must have played that you can't touch yourself, until HellLois ruling came along.
     
  3. Diphoration

    Diphoration Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    Weird thread to necro, it's been answered years ago.

    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/silhouette-contact-with-yourself.39589/#post-401611
     
  4. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    yes that thread had a later answer, but before that answer, it was apparently already solved and pointed to this thread.

    My necro is most closely related to this
    "Mostly because I don't think anyone actually believes it's an open question."

    And I agreed, I never thought it was an open question. You obviously could touch yourself (even before HellLois ruling came along).

    But I just learned that another non-open question, "can you see yourself", is apparently community-solved in the direct opposite ruling.

    Everyone seem to have known back then that "interaction between Troopers" and "The Troopers are positioned with their Silhouettes in contact with each other." didn't forbid from touching yourself (even if "yourself" does not fall under "each other"), but somehow they think that "any point of the volume of a Model to any point of the volume of another." means you can't see yourself.

    My conclusion is, if they thought "of another" is critically important, then they must have been all playing that "each other" was critically important and not allowed touching yourself until HellLois answered.
     
  5. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    In what situations does it matter whether a trooper can see itself?
     
  6. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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  7. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    NWI Doctor/Parvati shooting themselves with B2+ Medikit/Gizmokit most likely.
     
  8. wes-o-matic

    wes-o-matic Meme List Addict

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    Is that even legal? My read of the Medikit and Gizmokit skill rules is that the language below means that if you are in Silhouette contact (which you are with yourself, as previously established) then you follow this process:
    • A [Medi- or Gizmo-]Kit can also be used in Silhouette contact. To do so, the user must spend one Short Skill, without the need for a Roll, and their target will perform a PH Roll.
     
  9. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    No, it's not legal, because when you draw LOF you have to draw LOF to another target. You can't draw LOF to yourself.
     
  10. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    which are the same ones that also benefited from generously being considered in base contact with themself when the pre-HellLois-ruling written rule (and actually still written the same in v2) clearly said "interaction between troopers" and "each other" every time it is talking about what "silhouette contact" meant in context of actual rules.
     
    #30 Robock, Aug 24, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2023
  11. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    Major difference: The rulebook now says:
    A Trooper is always in Silhouette contact with themselves.
    in the silhouette rules (page 25 of v2.1).

    No corresponding statement has been added to the line of fire rules.

    And that's before getting into pieces like:
    • All of the line of fire diagrams in the book feature drawing line of fire from the surface of the model's volume.
    • The model's own volume should obstruct it from drawing line of fire to itself internally
    • Drawing line of fire to the model from itself would require the model to be in its own front arc. This has not been established.
    The rules currently provide a model to be in contact with itself by fiat.
     
    #31 solkan, Aug 26, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2023
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