Since it hasn’t been talked about in a while, I thought I’d bring the Yan Huo. Like many of those with the Bioimmunity nerf, he was affected. Unlike comparable HI of his size, he only has a BTS of 3. The new BI change means he can use his value of 5 for BTS but is effected by AP ammo. I already thought the YH was kinda meh but I definitely do now. So what does the YH need to be good? There’s plenty of things they can do but many of my ideas make him more expensive. Right now, I don’t know why to take him over any the below in IA. But some of these are also as good or better in Vanilla. Mowang for a point less (Mimetism -3, NCO, NWI, BTS6) BS13 with Mim-3 is much better than just BS14. Shang Ji for a point more (Faster, AP Plus Shock HMG, Tac Aware). As we know a SJ can get up to BS14 in a fireteam and gets +1 burst, 6th sense, etc. Hac Tao (Faster, BS14, ARM5/BTS6, Mim-6, NCO). Costs significantly more but for it you gain a lot for it. Suggestion of things I think they should add/change (Not all together of course): Change BTS to 6 Change Bioimmunity to NWI +1 Damage to all +1 B to Multi-HMG Marksmanship Sensor Triangulated Fire Mimetisim -3 Immunity Crits
NWI is so much more expensive than Bioimmunity, and Bioimmunity itself is... somewhat pointless if BTS isn't noticeably higher than ARM, and it kinda was before as well. NWI isn't bad, mind you, it's just gonna drive the price up a lot. Just rehashing my old ideas; * Give MHMG profile Neurocinetics. * Remove the artificially high cost of missile launchers * Change missile launcher Neurocinetics to Total Reaction * Remove FTO. Generally speaking the prices wouldn't alter all that much with these, other than the MHMG profile - which is primarily because CB has weird pricing on Neurocinetics. The alternative that is more true to the lore, so to speak, would be to treat them as Zuyong. Because they are Zuyong with more armour plates, and they train as Zuyong. The way the game has developed would not make the HRMC profile into even a core be all that eye-raising anymore. I'd suggest that AP Immunity is probably both more fitting and worthwhile. MSV1, as expensive as it would make it, on the MHMG profile could actually give it some reason to exist.
Just to be clear are you arguing that they should have fire team options removed, or the limited fire team options should be removed?
Bioimmunity was always kind of pointless on the Yan Huo. The HRMC profilr has been eating well since the fireteam changes, and although it could stand to receive a few minor buffs, isn't in need of anything drastic anymore. Mahtamori's suggested adjustments would be fine.
Best idea IMO. Micro-Optimisations are difficult to maintain; Yu-Jing has plenty of HI and being a competitive profile is hard in vanilla. Having them count as Zuyongs in Invicible fireteams would be great and compete with TacAwareness profiles (Shang Ji and Zuyong HMGs) That would be a great listbuilding choice for players : more orders or more firepower ? And the perspective of a pure-core pain-train even more interesting (if you are not afraid to be hacked)
Just let them all link as invincible and give the neuroprofiled total reaction instead, +1 dmg would be fitting as they carry weapons designed for TAGs per fluff and Courage of course. The MHMG could be dropped then. As it just exists because we aren't allowed burst 6.
I just want them to have a reason to take them over others in their own force. But I want the supposedly HI faction to be awesome at it too. I guess it could be said they go for quantity over quality though. I guess Mowang does cover more of the close assault HI while YH covers the long distance "artillery". But I'm still not sure why I'd take a Mowang over a Hac Tao or Shang Ji. I guess for Hac Tao it would be price. I might need fire power along with specialists. So then the Shang Ji is the real competition. Yan Huo MHMG or HRMC ARM5 BTS3, and BS14. AP OR Shock Burst 4 or 5 ARO is EXP or DA or AP or Shock Only MHMG in Team burst 5 Shang Ji ARM4 BTS6, and BS13 Tinbot Firewall -6 AP PLUS Shock Burst 4 or 5. (Fireteam) ARO is still AP PLUS Shock Faster movement Better PH for dodge Easier to add to Fireteams Able to get to BS14 or even 16 in a fireteam. A small thing but the Terrain Total is great in some missions. For me, I think I like the flexibility the Shang Ji has, speed, and able to AP plus Shock has been a huge help. Even though they might as well be just skills, I'd like some different Tinbots. Like +X to discover in addition to the usual firewall. Tinbots are not as interesting anymore since they can't be targeted. So what can make the different? For me YH needs to be a better shooter. Maybe better defense. But definitely better shooter. But I also don't want it going up in cost. The price it is now isn't bad. Many comparable size and armor troops are in the 50s.
I think the units here have different battle field roles. Shang is the typical mobile gun, roaming the table, change postion quickly, advances - he gets an upgrade in fireteams. Hac Tao has the same role, but has the shock and awe siderole. It is a superior gunfighter of its own with mime-6, suprise attack and BS 14. The Mowang is a midrange gun, that can get into the fray with its high arm together with mimetism and extra wound (so to speak). The Yan Huo is mainly a long range fireplattform. And here are also its flaws. They are slow and repositioning is order intensive. But it role is to cover a certain portion of the table. They were the first HI that carries TAG weaponary and that will make them dangerous but also clumpsy. The linkablity helps them and this should be more flexible. Bioimmunity helps not much and is very situativ. Something that speaks "bulky and high armour" would be Immuminity AP or Immunity crit. The low BTS seems to be a given downside from the early unit-design. It could be buffed by Tinbots or ECM Hacking -3. I have the feeling, that the former would be more cheap. Also B6 in a fireteam is not new nowadays. Maybe its not given because of the flexibility of the gun (HRMC) itself. ML could be easily one version with the mentioned TR and done. NWI is a bit too much and already coverd by the Mowang. Something like Battle Ravaged after the second wound could be intresting.
There's only two that can get up to burst 6. The Ratnik (AP spitfire) and Kriza (HMG). The price for the haris for them are pretty high to do it too. I'd like for them to have rules that are somewhat story driven. So I'd like to something like X-Visor. Not too expensive and can be useful for the long and short ranges.
It is kinda pointless but I disagree about expensive. It's a simple thing to make them a bit more interesting. Personally I love the X-visor on my Druze. I like being on 0 instead of -3 at ranges my opponent thought odds were in their favor. I loved it when the Bao had them.
But they are expensive. They cost quite a lot of points to bring in very little of advantage for a gun like the HRMC, which already has one of the best rangebands in the game.
From my observations X-Visors cost 1 point. I agree though, pretty worthless equipment on the Yan Huo.
They aren't that expensive. Kriza can sneak it with two forward observer bots and Frontoviks clock in as cheap as Haidao. Panggoling which is the only sneak price option for Yan Huo to make such a haris cheaper than the other two are, to put it bluntly, terrible. Cheaper, yes, but only good for using the Yan Huo as a turret.
Not a Yu Jing player here, but I experienced (or thought of) the Yan Hou as a Heavy weapon plattform for vanilla, for in sectorials are better and cheaper linkable options. Especially the ARO-options give something to vanilla that normaly just be accomplished by linkteams. (B2, for example) Yan Hou falls for me in this category of units that pull their weight more effectivy in vanilla than in secorials. But thats just my thoughts.
It's garbage and you are better served by just spending the points on Total Reaction REMs. You can't spend that many points on such a one dimensional ARO piece that will 35% of the time when it gets hit shit his power armour and go prone.
Yes, I know X-visor is practically useless. But it’s cheap and makes sense for what they do. Shoot stuff. I really think they should have just about every visor there is, they can’t shoot stuff they can’t see, but the cost would be ridiculous. I made the mistake of comparing the YJ to Kaitok. That thing has so much for such a small cost. I hate the Frenzy cheat. He at least gets cover until after the big thing he kills. I was mainly looking at the MSV1 +1 DMG Feuerbach. The HRL is not bad either. I guess the Mowang would be a better comparison since they are more like close assault types. If no MSV I’d like +3 Discover Marksmanship would be fantastic, but I’d settle for Triangulated Fire If not +1 Burst on MHMG then +1 Damage Since there’s now a precedent, how about -3 Dodge (Target Lock)? Something useful against Taiga.
YH is a stable in my vanilla lists. I take him as my high burst long range AP weapon. It can outrange TAGs on ARO duty and even take on heavier ARO snipers due to the B5.
No it doesn't. Its odds vs top end snipers are bad, it's unreliable to even hit them and almost as likely to lose the F2F rolls and take wounds against units like the Bolts or Atalanta.
I really love the Yan Huo HRMC miniature - imho it's top 5 best miniatures in the YJ range. But I also feel, it kinda underperforms. It really struggles against mimetism snipers (especially when they are beyond its 32" optimal range bracket - which is, od course, quite dependant on terrain and deployment). It really could use an additional special rule or two, to stand out among other HI heavy hitters. Bioimmiunity is next to useless nowadays. As it was mentioned above - Marksmanship would have been awesome, but I'm not counting on that.
