Don't care one way or the other if he's playable, but using a limited-AVA Character from a secondary property with a completely different tone as a key part of the Sectorial's design is ridiculous and I want it to stop. Let these crossover characters be a fun inclusion with some enjoyable abilities instead of our only viable unit for half the ITS Scenarios.
I do see your point here and I can certainly agree that in some cases there are characters that feel like a “must take” these days as opposed to in N3 where they were less so. I’m sure there’s a happy medium to include characters without them being the identity of the faction/sectorial that they’ve been added to and still have them be fun to play.
Take a read at people's comments again, if you're saying this you're misunderstanding them, if I'm being charitable. Nomads have access to multiple sources of eclipse smoke last time I checked. The specific example is Jazz inside of a room that you can't shoot into, so you can't get an angle or shoot at her from long range. This is pretty common on tables; are you saying this is a bad terrain setup? Because that'd be news to Infinity players worldwide.
And here I am trying to get them to stop putting in stupid must take faction gap filling characters....
Isn't hard. They used to be fairly good about it actually, all the way up to Dart most Characters were a take-or-leave option that tended to modify the way an army or Fireteam could play without being essential- the much stricter Fireteam rules and reduced degree of optimisation probably made it easier; most Characters packed unique combinations of equipment that weren't strictly better for their points values (as they tended to have a bit of bloat) but allowed for unusual tactics. There were still a couple of lemons though (Bipandra has been pretty bad forever) and a few outliers that nearly always made lists (Wallace, Joan).
Not all A! characters can be transferred to the battlefield, Maximus is stated as a purely civilian character, others were first introduced in Infinity and then were integrated in A!
From the lack of responses I can gather that psychoticstorm and Mao are trying to explain away any situation where Jazz can't be sniped as bad table layouts, while at the same time not acknowledging that rooms she can be inside of are decently common. Because otherwise they'd have to cop to the fact that there's no good solutions to a Nomad hacking network from a PanO player's perspective.
I already explained to you that if you play on a table were the enemy hackers are virtually untouchable, the mid table allows for infiltrating repeaters to be unapproachable and the opposing player has clear LoF pathways to shoot unopposed pitchers to your deployment zone, then you are playing in a badly set up table and should reconsider how you and your opponents or your tournament organizer sets up tables. I do not think there is much more to explain.
Exactly. If every table immediately lends itself to being an impregnable Jazz fortress, something’s wrong with those tables. Additionally, since several posters have described games where they successfully neutralized Jazz, using a variety of methods, it would also seem that those tables offering her (and Hacking troops like her) unapproachable and unassailable hides aren’t that common.
The discussion about the tables, how impossible to catch some particular profile or not, it is truly interesting, I can deny that, but isn´t a particular issue from our beloved Pano, I think every faction struggle with the terrain set up once in a while. If tables are too open probably factions without v-0 or white noise will be complaining about kamau snipper and his friends, and they will have reason to do it. So, we all know that setup table has a big impact in how good or bad some profiles are and here, so we can talk about strategic when we build our lists, but tactics once we start to play. Some armies can align choices or options to fullfil several roles with less or more impact in the general permance. Here is where Pano pays a lot of taxes. You can set up in winterforce almost a full list of mimetism and with a lot of people in the middle of the table, but if the terrain don´t allow to take good covert you will be in disavantage if you are facing similar approach but with camo state, since, at least a discover will be needed in order to shoot. Same if the enemy has a lot of cheap templates. The table will impact more one player than another. About the issue to catch some people like jazz into the enemy deployment zone, I can´t think it will be a thing about bad or good setup. In my mind, at least one deployment zone should allow to hide really well your army in order to try to avoid "rush" in the first turn. To mantain the discussion useful, I think the tables setup can be ignored, or at least we could reach some kind of agreedment like: they are many tables setup configurations, sometimes well balanced between long LoF and shorts, others with a tendency to long LoF, others the opposite. We don´t play allways in the same table with the same set up. So, sometimes Kamau snipper could do a lot of thing, others not. Sometimes Jazz will have plenty of places to keep his head down, others not.
There is, because it's the norm to create tables where this is the case, worldwide. Go to a major tournament and the majority of tables will allow for this. The CB-produces terrain allows for this. I'd even put forth the idea that she was *designed* to interact with the game in that way. There are no terrain guidelines in the rulebook saying "don't do this" that lead to any amelioration of low-risk high-reward noninteractive plays like this.
You've got a building in your deployment zone with a lip around the roof. Congratulations, you've got an impregnable Jazz fortress.
@psychoticstorm and @A Mão Esquerda disagree. That's a terrible terrain setup as per what they are discussing. And no, this is important to harp on, because people are pretending it's not a problem. There are two elements here that people want to be true: 1. Models have to be protected from everything but unreasonable effort in alpha strikes 2. Jazz can be attacked without unreasonable effort in some method other than hacking. You can't, because these two are contradictory. Hence why psychoticstorm and Mao's positions look more and more inane as they continue with them.
I’m game. Tables are going to do what they’re going to do, and as you said, bemoaning that this table favors Jazz is just as foolhardy as someone complaining about the table favoring the Kamau.
I think table setting favors Kamau sniper or Jazz shouldn't be considered the same. They require significantly different amount of conditions. Kamau can be good in open table while will not function in a very dense crowded table. On what table Jazz cannot find a place to put her head down? Spoiler https://infinitythewiki.com/Setting_up_the_Gaming_Table Corvus Belli advises to have terrain to hide troops outside from enemy LoF. So, basically there should be a place for Jazz to hide.
