And who simply forget that when you’re playing a specific army, play what you have rather than whining about what you don’t. PMC doctrine: “apply bullets of increasing calibre and rate of fire until problem solved.” PanO player doctrine: “apply BS Attacks of increasing BS, B, and DAM until enemies are in a Null State. Then push the button.” If that’s not how you want to play, then work out how you do want to play and find the army that does that.
I don't even think most people in this discussion play PanO, they've just got a shred of empathy. We've all played with other folks who enjoy their army men, even if they're different from ours, and it seems like every month some familiar voice around the PanO area of the forum goes silent because there's just been no love for what they enjoy. The faction's not in a good place in any way save for raw sales and casual participation (judging by the global campagn stats)- both of which are propped up almost entirely by Military Orders, which has received two major reworks in N4 alone while NCA and Acon are in maintenance mode and Varuna's still almost as thin as it was on release. Folks aren't having fun anymore, and that's a problem for an entertainment product!
Wow, that escalated quickly. To be fair, he was whining about something he already had, in this case, the Bulleteer. You know this doesn't apply to reality, mainly because Pano may apply attacks of increasing BS up to 15, until a mim -6 BS 12 enemy unit ruins your day. Or Atalanta, she always ruins everyone's day. B and DAM are the same for every army. If Pano can do this the rest may as well. There's no advantage for Pano here.
If you came out against every balance pass by CB with the same argument, you might be able to say that with integrity. And yet you're consistently hypocritical. The issue is that it's a bad way to play Infinity; noninteractive tools like what Nomads have are just better. Ditto Tohaa. You're essentially telling people "you picked the loser faction, deal with it." Not everyone else has the part of their brain that can determine fairness broken like you.
Let’s remain civil What you say here is correct. What we are stating is simply that PanO doesn’t shoot anymore better than others. I personally picked them because I liked their models. And I like their playstyle. Don’t get me (or the others) wrong. We, or at least I, are raising is the fact that one cannot keep stating “PanO can’t have the tools the other have” as of the moment they don’t shoot better than others. That’s not more complicated than that. Having a “base” BS increased by 1 (+5% chance to hit), is not sufficient to rip you off from all the rest of the tools as of the moment you have, in other factions: 1. Key units that shoot as well as PanO (because you don’t need to have all troopers to shoot well, only the active one) 2. FT rules allow other factions to easily field a pure core while PanO has a lot of difficulty fielding one that makes sense. And this is materialised in the game by one simple fact. One cannot say “you shoot better” as of the moment you have to constantly hide all of your units because you fear: - getting hacked - getting smoked - getting white noised - or simply getting shot at by troopers in FT that shoot better than you do And that’s a reality. To conclude: the nerf wasn’t needed in terms of balancing (since it’s not like PanO outperforms everyone), and certainly wasn’t needed in terms of -list-building-fun that, since the FT rules update, has become insanely stiff and boring for PanO
Apart from the bulleteer changes I'm looking into -my also beloved- Starmada changes and the 20 pt Sarko with wildparrot, while understanding 1:1 comparisons don't always make sense, make the locust cry. I know he shoots better but...
Was it also intended to remove shock inmunity from bulleteers? I just realised they don't have it anymore and I'd say they had it before the last update.
Look at the Varuna version. I commented this in the unofficial Discord and someone is going to report it as a bug.
While I usually don't agree with the angry mob of PanO, I have to admit: PanO aren't anymore a standing faction. Playing PanO since 2016 and O-12 since 2019, I realized that if I want to play what I feel like the most shooting-related tech faction out there and be a a threat to anyone who might show their head off a cover, I'll play... O-12. Because PanO are "bad" at shooting. They get beaten up by anyone that can get pure FT or negative mods in FTF rolls, meaning 80% of every other factions. I only play PanO for MO now, because that's the only positive thing that came out of N4 for them, and that's the only thing CB's Game Design Team can still understand/do by the book for them and providing fun to the players without "exploiting rules" (aka Joan's Irregular hype train) . I also play SAA because they're kinda like O-12 mixed with MO, still reliable and fun to play, but OOP. In the end, I think this is not really a matter of "why Pano", but more of "CB don't know how factions work anymore", because now Ariadna has TAGs, PanO are out-performed in FTF shooting rolls and on tech profiles, Haqqislam have strong techy HI, Nomads are toe-to-toe with Combined Army on being strong on all points, etc. It gives me the impression we're back at the end of N3, when designing things right was just a relic of the past, the only thing being about "when we release new things we need to make them desirable" which shows either a lack of confidence by CB in their product (why? were sales impacted recently? did they take a blow?), new designers that didn't got it right, or just a lack of passion and interest for the game anymore.
I agree so much with everything stated here. While I feel they still have passion for Infinity, I feel they lost it for PanO, except for the Military Orders. I really feel they would love getting rid of PanO but they aren’t because they sell well. Yet, the funny thing is that PanO is basically still the only faction that keeps its legacy traits and design philosophy. On the opposite, as you mentioned, now other factions have their “negative” traits being offset while keeping their positive traits.
Honestly, i think Pano's decline is just down to CB mis-ordering its sectorial-reboot calendar. We've had bakunin, sp and hb recently, and it really feels like pano should have featured so.ewhere in there instead. I strongly suspect that next battle box will be nu-CA vs a Pano sectorial, but it's coming a bit late, and hence the feeling of being overlooked. If we could see the design queue tho, it would feel different. Just my two cents' worth.
The problem with this is that it shouldn't take a complete rework and new sectorial release for CB to work on factions. There should be work put into making sure all factions (and sectorials) are relatively even in competitive play. Instead we got stats for units from their spin off games, real good high quality design like the Digger....
I agree, but there it is. For whatever reason, that's the model they've settled on. I suspect it's the big bump in interest created by faction reworks, and a heightened chance of players getting into the reworked faction.
