Bakunin revamp: what's going, what's staying

Discussion in 'News' started by burlesford, Feb 3, 2023.

  1. Benkei

    Benkei Well-Known Member

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    It's not a huge problem and anybody who has played this game knows that.
    Basically the answer is "play Nomads or CA if you don't want your entire game being warped by a 70 points link". Now with 20 point true HI to back it up besides the usual Morlocks and UFK and a repeater net set on the midfield T0.

    But don't worry, they don't have NCO so you have the advantage.
     
    #501 Benkei, Mar 15, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2023
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  2. anubis

    anubis sarcastic exaggerator

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    Steve Rogers Pulling a Stump Apart 15032023091916.jpg
     
  3. fari

    fari CRISTASOL, EL LIQUIDO DE LOS DIOSES

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    illuminatrix will be simply an HVT
    Pack Beta will be a repack of existing Moderators and Morlocks


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
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  4. UpirLihi

    UpirLihi Well-Known Member

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    So can someone enlighten me about the Illuminatrix?

    CB had issues with the SKU number, which it solved by slashing a lot of single miniature products, consolidating some others, removing the majority of pilots, OOP-ing whole sectorials etc... One of the victims was the Midnight Sun Analyst, a very versatile Nomad HVT, which many also used in other roles too. HVTs were further narrowed by creating Dire Foes boxes with three functional miniatures, including the last one.

    Now we see a new single-miniature HVT release - the Illuminatrix. What's the rationale - simply replacing the analyst? Or some kind of soft return towards the Bootleg series, a trend which may have started with Helen of Troy?

    On a different topic - the current timeline also leaves some curious gaps:
    1. SWC weapons moderators.
    2. Riot Grrl with spitfire
    3. Additional moiras and cenobites, potentially additional healer and custodier
    4. Additional Taskmaster

    I realize some of these are with lower priority, since many Nomad players already have them, and they will not be key for most Bakunin list (except the riot grrl), but they are somewhat easy to spot and the lack of additional moderators will hurt players in 150 and 200pt games. Does CB have plans about releasing any of those?
     
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  5. fari

    fari CRISTASOL, EL LIQUIDO DE LOS DIOSES

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    Beyond the Pack Beta mark (wich marks the end of 2023), new zeros, prowlers, lizard, brando and Uberfall will arrive. probably even not mentioned troops

    My bet for the two morlocks... Harley and Colossus
     
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  6. TAKEZO

    TAKEZO Well-Known Member

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    Nothing i guess? Crabbots and assimilates only exists to give TAGS a chance to score objectives in some way, Stigmata already being Hacker it doesn't need this kind of feature.
     
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  7. MrChupee

    MrChupee Member

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    I would mourn the loss of the SWC moderators, but at the very least the an important part of the starter set and morlock boxes is preserved I guess. With the moderators only being Haris, I guess they're banking on the fact no-one really wants a triple Moderator SWC weapon team.

    I also agree it's kind of weird (and super illogical?) that there aren't enough new Reverends in the pipeline to really let Observancy take centre stage.
     
  8. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    With all the complaints about riot grrls in moderator teams I had to go back and check on the chart and...

    Moderators can only haris. So no Riot Grrl+Moderator Core is even possible anymore.

    Riot Grrls can make a full core, but it's expensive, with each model being a minimum 20 points. Cenobites can also make a full core with full bonuses, but it's also expensive.

    So we got two options of template full core turret: BS16 Missile Launcher with MSV1 or BS14 Rocket Launcher with MIM-6. Both are fairly strong, but both are also a steep investment as both fireteams cost around 140 points.

    I can't see how any of these would be broken in the current state of the game.
     
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  9. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    This has been confirmed to be an error; if you look, Moderators are listed as 1-5, which obviously makes no sense for a Haris. People brought it up and PsychoticStorm confirmed it was an oopsies and they can still Core.
     
  10. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    Ah, I see. Well, so bakunin can have a BS14 2 wound MSV1 missile launcher.

    Doesn't seem that bad.
     
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  11. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    Also Burst 2 and can dodge on 16's if caught out of range, to be fair.

    She's not insurmountable or anything, but she is a hellaciously effective and efficient ARO piece.

    I don't think she breaks the game, especially as Missile Launchers in general struggle to find opportunities to contribute in active turn and she's been doing this for years in multiple factions at this point with no adverse affects, but I can see an argument that she may make it less competitive to take an Reverand Core due to her overall strength.

    Personally I think we may need to let the faction settle a bit after the changes, including the final version of the profiles, but I think she'll remain a strong option for those who want a cheap defensive Core.

    If the Reverend options gained a cost reduction (already confirmed for Moiras) and some reshuffling of important skills, they could offer an offensive alternative to the Riot Grrl/Moderator's defensive focus.
     
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  12. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    This is spot on. I play with the RG ML in a mixed Moderator core right now, about 50% of my lists. This is mainly due to the prevalence of smoke/chainrifle skirmishers in the game and the need for an effective counter to them. Especially bears: even if their TI makes the missiles less effective, a DAM 15 hit is still useful.

    It’s not game-breaking. Opponents either avoid that firelane (the easy route) or outshoot her, generally. Eclipse or White Noise do work for the 50% of armies that have them, but just avoiding or killing her works for everyone.

    Mostly people HMG, Spitfire, or multi/combi her to death. It takes 2-4 orders to do so, worth it if she’s watching a key objective.

    Besides just dying, she also ducks into cover a lot: WIP 13 and no Courage means she ducks into cover 35% of the time when she has to make an armor save.

    She’s proven so useless in the active turn that I consider her Plan D at best. I yolo a combi at something long before shooting with her (which requires backing up to or finding a very long-range shot if it’s available).

    Honestly her main value is as a Distraction Carnifex. (Apparently her function on the internet is similar…:grinning:). Opponents who fixate on her waste time and orders and I gain traction. Those who ignore or quickly neutralize her have overcome a significant points investment, which handicaps me.

    You’re also right that it will be nice to have other decent ranged ARO options. I do use Sin Eaters when I know I’m not facing Ariadna, Haqq (man I hate Muttawiah), or Steel Phallanx. Having more affordable/effective Reverend shooters is gonna be nice.
     
    #512 Savnock, Mar 15, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2023
  13. kesharq

    kesharq Lucky Dice-Roller

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    RG ML + 2-4 Moderators, 1 with MSR or Spitfire?
    Taskmaster HRL + 2 Morlocks Haris?
     
  14. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    I’ve tried adding a Moderator MSR to the core link… they got picked off pretty easily, wasn’t a a good investment. I’d use one in a 5-trooper pure Moderator core but not otherwise. Shame because I love the old MSR model.

    The Taskmaster HRL is good, especially for holding territory in Quad Control or the like. I use it when not using the Red Fury to seize territory or storm rooms, or the HMG to shore up weak long range shooting. It definitely comes in third to those others though.
     
  15. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    I have actually taken down an avatar using an MRL riot grrl in a full link shooting through smoke. Once.

    That by no means make her a counter to the Avatar, but it was a fun little moment.

    All in all, I think the riot core will compete with the observance core. Depends only on moira and healer kits.
     
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  16. Daireann

    Daireann Well-Known Member

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    So, it is a moment not for statistics? (I’d recommend to add a little medal at least on inner side of the base of that link, who did that x))
     
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  17. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    My riot grrls have a remarkable record taking down TAGs, but usually is the MULTI-Rifle girl doing it on the active.

    They're all painted as the main characters from the My Little Pony cartoon, so they're already quite remarkable on their own right and they tend to pop out on any table. I love them.

    One of my biggest concern with this release was the future of riots, but looking at how things go, I am very happy. I think the lateral upgrade to observance will make bakunin a lot more enjoyable to play
     
  18. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Same, as well as Prowlers- which Bostria just said are staying in the new Beyond the Action Pack video.

    CB are keeping the good bits around while fixing the subpar stuff, which is really nice to see. So far it looks like the new stuff isn't overpowered, either. As a loyal Bakunin player it makes me feel like decisions have been made to enhance play, and not just removing units I loved to sell new units.

    Good work guys! This is why Infinity is my main miniature-game expenditure these days, and why I buy stuff just to support the company (even when I'm not 100% sure I'll use it, or when I already have the unit).
     
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  19. redeemer

    redeemer Well-Known Member

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    My little pony como does give hidden +12 to mimetism bonus :P
     
  20. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    If you ever got a chance to face the Pony Grrls off against the Hello Kitty army (which belongs to a really nice player who is from Russia, so maybe unlikely to be playing in Europe or the U.S. soon), that would be quite the photo op.
     
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