Until one year ago even if not optimal I managed to play and have fun. Now everytime we have a tournament in my small community I try and try and then I finish always to bring Tohaa instead of Spiral. Is not a matter of winning, I don't care, but at least to be competitive and have fun. Is a pity for me 'cause I love the idea of a mixed mercenary company tohaa/human. Honestly I don't understand why Corvus continue to blatantly ignore the Spiral players preferring to update/remade Bakunin/Kosmoflot etc etc. Even small twist and adjustments will make the difference
Lol, that's the entire point of ITS. You get two lists, to build them to the mission set. Hell, Pano would be rubbish at countermeasures if you didn't build for it haha
Spiral probably have the best defence in the game, though. I do think they profit from being rarely played too, so unless they've played them, your opponent might not be fully aware of how they work, especially post-crimsonstone. These two things combined make them a strong pick still, but I'd agree that they're pretty limited. St Albans is a case in point. Some of the best players in the UK were there, and Riker took them to the top, beating good opponents. There's plenty of meat left on those bones, even if Tohaa are way stronger.
Except that the good factions don't need to build for the mission. They can make two lists for different matchups or different table setups, while still being able to do the missions. True. Sukeul Missile Launcher, Nikoul, two Taqeul with Endgame, two SymbioBomb and ridiculous template proliferation through Makauls really make them ridiculously hard to beat in reactive. Oh wait.
Of course they do, you're not gonna run a list optimised for quadrant control or annihilation and then dump it into countermeasures. It's a totally different build with different priorities. Spiral aren't great, we can all agree on that. But they def have the toolkit available to do just fine at both of those missions and still have a list spare for aggressive missions.
I disagree. Since you can run only 2 lists for tournaments of 3 (or even 5+) missions. You can't build a list for each individual missions. The best factions in the game right now have such optimized profiles within their factions that the difference between a list optimized for Quadrant Control and a list optimized for Countermeasures aren't going to be a that much different. The reason why these factions are the best faction imo is that instead of building lists that edges for the missions they can instead build two different list either for the table setup (open / closed table) or the matchup (camo spam, null deployment, etc.). Meanwhile the weaker factions are the ones that absolutely need to build for the mission to be able to bring the correct tools. And the bigger your tournament is, the worst they get (because they can't afford to only have 2 lists for 5 missions for example).
Tohaa have a Kamael hacker at the same price as a Brawler hacker, and have more deployable repeater options than Spiral which makes them more useful outside of those classified missions. I don't think Spiral is in a better place since the removal of the Brawlers. The even without linking, brawlers filled the warbands roll that Spiral is really lacking. I think the benefits Spiral has over Tohaa is the Kauuri Paramedic profile, access to 2 Kiiutan, and the Kiiutan E/M mines profile. However I do not think this is makes up for what is lost.
Don't forget the Taagma Sniper + Kriigel Smoke (which can even go into the same relatively cheap fireteam with a Reex as the third member); for me, the Smoke + Taagma combo is absolutely core to Spiral's bag of tricks. That said the continuous loss off effectiveness of some of our other tricks (Taagma + Chaksa triad, Tri-Core, Brawler/Digger Core) has beaten Spiral down to the point where it can be pretty difficult to justify it over switching to Tohaa instead. But that MSV2 Sniper + Smoke Launcher is one of the reasons I still sometimes get the itch to run Spiral over Tohaa; the Gao Rael + Kerail is just not even close to the same level of effectiveness.
I believe you meant Diggers in your second paragraph - those were a great three months or so! I completely slept on the Kamael - they're better suited for the defensive hacker role with the WIP13 over Brawler's WIP12... but then Spiral can get access to 4-man link bonus for sixth sense against sneaky buggers. So Spiral can field a true five man core, getting full composition bonuses (Brawlers + Taagma), and a HARIS gaining the five man fireteam size bonus if they spend on a Tricore; they additionally gain several useful extra profiles and brawlers. In trade they give up useful Tohaa profiles such as Sukeul, Makaul, Kamael, and Taqeul; they also give up access to the second set of mates. I really need to find a suitable proxy for Makaul troopers...
Depends on the mission set, you might be able to get away with a slightly suboptimal build for countermeasures/HC if the other lists are for objective heavy missions, but if CM/HC is the outlier mission in an otherwise "killy" mission pack, you're gonna want a dedicated list for that
Hey, I'm not arguing that Tohaa ain't the better faction - they clearly are. But ... triple helots is real! :D And eraser is a better defensive stink than endgame imo, making double Kriigel cheaper than double Taq, and very compatible with most SC lists. Lack of Makauls is the only thing in your list that really sucks for Spiral, but that's because thos guys are utterly (utterly) broken. I still think Spiral are harder to sucker punch, because their defence is disposable, like a good defense should be, whereas losing sukeuls or taquels will cripple your active turn.
