So let's not beat around the bush. Losing the diggers was hard from a tactical perspective. And the fireteam update last summer/spring was a mixed bag. We got an Anaconda haris and long arms counted as Chaksa(very cool!) But lost pure Taagma triads and the less said about tri-core the better. But instead let's focus on ways to make Spiral better. It is the current in production "tohaa" army and so CB ostensibly has reasons to make it an attractive purpose, so let's give them some ideas! For my part I have two easy ideas they could implement tomorrow. Idea 1) add the Maakrep and the Fraacta to spiral corps. Yes they are CA models, but they are biologically Tohaa. Additionally we know Spiral loves doing false flag operations, it would make sense they'd try to recreate/steal the needed gear and use those units. These models would also help fill a couple of holes in the Spiral corp forces. Additionally CA does not really have an NA2 force, not like other factions. And having an NA2 you can slide into is a great way to get people to buy models they otherwise wouldn't. We all know someone who went "gee, I am already in yujing, maybe I should try dashat?" And two months later they have a full Haq force. Having an NA2 with some siigma units would be a great way to get CA players into an NA2 or for spiral and Tohaa players to slide into CA, it's just good business. So it benefits the players, is lore friendly, and benefits CBS ledger. Idea 2) The "False Flag" fireteam. This would be a fire team made of Maakreps, Taagma (and could be purely Taagma), and one of the Greif Operator profiles without impersonation. It is fluffy, fun, and something Tohaa does not do better. Idea 3) specialized "pure" fireteams. This is essentially an expansion on point 2. Tohaa can't be beat in terms of variety inside of one fireteam, and honestly for the good of the game no one should try to beat it. The head ache that was the triad was, from a game design standpoint, one reason to discontinue them and start fresh. So instead make specialized fireteams that have some pure options. Want me to take the reex fireteam? Make the kriigel count as a reex. Give the kosuil a "saboteur fireteam" and throw in kriigels or draals. Give us fireteams that support the play style and fluff of spiral corp. So yeah just a couple of quick ideas, how about y'all? What would you do to make spiral play better?
All great ideas, IMO. Perfect excuse to rebox the maakrep. I’ve had a few ideas recently. First, from another thread, add an inspiring leadership character, new merc, new tohaa or just give it to neema, anything’s good. One of the comments I saw on the addition of the beast hunter was that we already have enough irregulars. Well why not make that our strength. I’ll let the hard cores decide if that’s too op. Second, this merc company is based on Varuna, right? How about adding some pano tech they bought like remotes and squalo suits. Maybe even some ORC armour. I also would like one or two other units. Maybe Zulu cobra?
I personally think Spiral Corps has decent playstyle design. - Low firepower but easy to deliver it when it can hit hard. - Nice board control(phero, Helots, etc) I support the idea of Pano tech. But Orc armor seems too much. I'm happy with REM. Bulleteer would be super welcomed but it is not matching with faction design(low firepower) so only basic remotes are fine. My suggestion is : 1. Make brawler as wildcard. So that we can put human agent in any Tohaa team. 2. Sukeul FO only SC only has 1 FO in entire army list. Plus, Sukeul adds dep.rep to the army so it will enhances board control ability. Sukeul's other options seems to be too strong for SC so I suggest only FO(incl. Lt), only 1 AVA.
Add the basic suite of Pano S3 REMS at Ava1. Give monstrucker a regular FTO option. Make all kauuri FTO options. Somehow make reex useful?
I've got a few ideas as well. To recap the problems we are trying to solve are 1. with the loss of diggers spiral lost more punch, resilience and flexibility in their links. This partly plays into problem 2. Spiral is now basically Tohaa but less. It's weaker and lost a real distinction. Everyone likes if factions has their own identity. Most players seem to agree that Spirals identity is a strong defense, Impersinators, mind games, a lack of many long range weapons with ways to play around it and the ability to build one link that is stronger then a Tohaa link(in the past it was the Tri-Core, after that it was a Brawler+Digger+MSV2 Taagma Core). How could these problems be solved while maintaining faction idintity? I don't think that every following suggestion should be apllied at the same, but a few of them could go a long way. I tried to think of solutions that don't change rules or profiles, only keywords, fireteams or parts of the roaster. Firstly my ideas for Hot-Fixes: 1. Make the Kaauri Submachine, Boarding Shotgun and possibly Sniper able to join a brawler core. When done like this, they basically replace the digger in their function but make it a bit more "spiral". They bring back a solid Close Range Fighter and resillince. But this resillience doesn't come by being HI but by enhancing the link teams resilience with their tools (E/M Mines, MSV+Biometric Visor). At the same time they don't drastically change the way the link team operates like a Mirrorball or Paramedic Kaauri would. 2. Make Tri-Core interesting again. I like that we are now able to put Tri-Core in Fireteams with an Anaconda or a Kiel-Saan. What I don't like is that it is impossible to get composition bonuses on Tri-Core. To bring back a bit of punch I suggest to add the following paragraph to Triad Fireteams: While a Taagma (Tri-Core) in a non-Null, non-isolated state is part of a link team, the link team additionally gets the 3, 4, 5 member Composition bonus. This way we keep the new possibilities and bring back a distinct Spiral trait to a relevant strength. I could also imagine to just grant 3,4 member Composition bonus, because most fireteams went down in Firepower after the fireteam update. If we want to keep the Tri-Core in it's current state, add Tri-Core to the Taagma MSV 2 profile. So that when we will never see Tri-Core in all it's glory again, it is at least more easily to integrate into current link teams. 3. Make Neema an inspiring leader. This would make Spiral really distinct from Tohaa. This way it costs less points to get enough orders and you could use the points to upgrade a unit to a Draal or Kiel-Saan, thus giving back punch, resillience and faction identity. At the same time I think there is a high risk of making Spiral lists really one-sided with this approach. Now onto my other ideas, that are all rather small but could be enough when applied together or with one of the hot fixes: 1. bouncing of of the ideas about Pan-O tech one could create a fireteam duo with a Sierra and a Kosuil. This would allow to play the TR-Bot more actively. This would enhance the defensive theme of Spiral and add a little bit firepower to spiral while not crossing any boundaries of firepower imo. As spiral normally doesn't have an EVO Hacker a BS11, B4 HMG isn't any stronger then a BS12, B3 Autocannon I think. 1b. But there are also other methods to further increase spirals defense. One could add a TR-Mulebot to the Spiral roaster(I think the EVO Mule doesn't go well with Spiral) join a Haris Fireteam (either a Triad or a Fireteam specifically for this purpose). This would add a cheap B4 TR Bot to Spiral, while granting no long range weapon. Lastly one could create a special Fireteam of 3 Chaksa Auxilliars with two HF and one Heavy Rocket Launcher- a defensive Fireteam for 35 pts, allowing us to spent points for our current attack pieces. 2. Give the current Chaksas Fireteam Strategic Deployment. With Chacksa Longarms being as expensive as they are now, it should be granted for free. This would make the Longarms a little more viable and Hail-Mary Haris with a cheaper Longarms and Auxilliars a little more viable as well. 3. Lastly I think granting wider access to Kaauri would do Spiral really well and they fit perfectly with spiral. Kaauris are the epitome of spiral "I can't f*ck with you, but you can't f*ck with me even more". Depending on the overall changes one could allow some or all Kaauris to join a fireteam Triad (to stay in line with the fluff make them max 2 in Fireteam Triad). The Mirrorball-Version would just be a slightly cheaper alternative to the Kriigel, trading Eraser, smoke and a stronger weapon, for mines, msv and a few points. At the same time I don't think they would undermine the Kriigels spot, as they are such a fantastic Toolbox. The 12&14 pts Kaauris would just drop the points of our Triads, adding defense and freeing pts for attack pieces. The cost is equal to Kamaels and Makauls. The Paramedic is really good and would change some of the Triads but I think it's still good idea as it is a spiral exclusive thing thus enhancing faction identity. I also think the additional resillience wouldn't be higher as Tohaas current resillience, as they have acces to more 2+ wounds modells. Yeah and Kiel-Saan Haris should get access to mirrorball Kaauri. I think 62+ pts for a close combat unit and some eclipse in a close range faction is a fair price. Now I can't produce any more ideas I think What are your thoughts?
I'd definitely like to see incentives to include more non-Tohaa models in my Spiral Corps lists; I think 90% of the time it's just Tohaa models plus a couple of Helots. I really like the idea of Brawlers being a 0-1 wildcard, as it would broaden our options a lot. It would also allow for an Engineer to be put in the Kiel-Saan Haris which is something I'm keen on. I like the idea of more PanO tech, but I don't think Spiral Corps should get all the PanO REMs; we already have Servants, Baggage, Sensor, Guided, and an ARO HMG available in the form of the Chaksa so I'd rather see them buffed than outshone. But I would really love to get the Pathfinder Dronbot as another FO option. Just having any REM would help with Classifieds. More options for the Brawler Core would rule. My issue with the Brawler Core pre-Digger was that once your shooter was down you were left with 4 models that weren't much use. Diggers helped by being slightly cheaper and by being really useful once the shooter was down, so the Brawler Core really needs something generally useful with the Brawler tag to shore it up. My left-field pick would be for Kaauri Sentinels to become a 0-1 Wildcard. Given that Spiral Corps is supposed to specialise in anti-shasvastii operations it would make sense that they would lean on the troop designed to counter shasvastii, and in game it gives you some really interesting options. Wildcards with the Brawler tag would be even better as it would help the core a bit. I'd love the Anaconda to get a rework, too. A cheap TAG Haris could be a really interesting point of difference, if only the TAG was a wee bit better. I'd straight up swap the Anaconda for a Gecko, for example; something small, cheap and punchy to use like HI would suit me down to the ground. All this is pure wishlisting, of course. As I said at the start, I'd be happy with anything that meant I put more non-tohaa models on the table.
For me the big weakness of Spiral is warbands and CC. Before the fireteam changes I ran 2 diggers as my regular orders in group two, every game. They gave some nice pressure to the midfield with their impetuous and cc threat, or could guard key units from taighas and such. Then, the fireteam changes. (It seemed to me that the contract made by CB with Spiral players was 'look, we're nerfing the hell out of tricore, but in return we're giving you a decent set of options for an actual core, in essence a new genre for SC lists.' It was a sidegrade for sure, but an interesting take. Now CB feel to have reneged on that agreement, and taken away the thing that was offered at the time of the tricore nerf. I know there was no 'contract' but that's why I think this feels pretty harsh.) Anyway, post fireteam changes I'd run one brawler/digger list out of my two, partly because it gave me a list with defensive fire and deployment zone point defence. So what do SC need to improve? Something very very similar to diggers :D - a unit that can trade, body block warbands, put pressure on scoring units in the midfield, and make the core (which is one of the only things that differentiates SC fro Tohaa) actually viable again. So yeah, diggers
Additional Thoughts : Replace Taagma's zErO pAiN option to normal HD(or KHD + Oblivion?). Holomask hacker seems fun to me. I know Tohaa is not familiar with hacking but these guys are literally living with humans at human sphere. maybe they got a chance to learn how to use it.
I know Zero Pain isn't well regarded, but I'd be quite stoked for the Kiel Saan to get a Zero Pain profile; becoming a specialist and making it more resistant to hacking? Yes please. I like the idea of more unique Taagma profiles too. With Reex, I swear I saw someone on the forum suggest that they get reworked as Peripherals for the Kriigel. Can't find the post now, but I thought that was a pretty neat idea.
By what I've seen, NA2 has not had many releases in the last few years. I'm hoping the get something next year. They could add to Spiral/ Tohaa with something new or just take something from Tohaa. Like finally make a Taquel. I'd like to see a troop that's available to most NA2 as well. Chaksa Long arms could expanded to others possibly, but I'd prefer something new.
Zero Pain isn't well regarded because when it gets thrown onto models like the Taagma it comes with the severe downside of making them Hackable; a model with Zero Pain is weaker vs. a hacker than a model without it because the model without it is blanketly immune to everything that isn't Spotlight; hence most players would rather have a "Specialist Operative" option for 1 point than a "Hacker (Zero Pain)" option for 2 and 0.5 SWC. However, throwing Zero Pain onto a model that is already hackable like the Kiel-Saan would be an entirely different story; it helps protect itself from hacking threats, makes it a specialist, and allows it to qualify for things like Mindwipe. A fun idea to entertain.
Just wanted to add from a game perspective, there is nothing about zero pain that should warrant a swc cost. If khds don't cost swc whilst enabling marker state and objective grabbing then why the hell do those garbage devices cost swc when they make minis worse?
I started to play SC 6 months ago. I agree with many people here that currently this sectorial has lost most of its uniqueness. I would love to see some change next year. As it is now many units are not fitting well and so are not included in the lists leading to almost fixed choices for compiling a competitive list. I would love to see changes such as: 1) Reex more useful (such as Mimetism -3 or Nanoscreen to make them a bit more resilient). 2) Armand Le Muet Specialist operative profile for SC(lorewise can be justified as he is working as a secret agent for Triumvirate and will help to make him more used) 3) A new leader character unique for SC. Similar to Neema that is an Ectros officer I will do something like XXX Taagma Secret Agent Officer (lieutenant profile and not). It fit with the secret agenda of Triumvirate. Skills: holomask, Strategos, Counterintelligence, Stealth and Immunity Shock and wildcard. Equipment K1 Marksman/Viral Combi, Nanopulser, Viral Pistol(if K1 Combi), E/M cc weapon
I think Kaauri and Reex need to be able to form their own teams. They are severely limited in what they can be in and no one takes them as individuals.
Kauuri being able to freely join any team on any profile would make them useable. Not being able to triad is the problem. Reex are just a bit shit. Unless they get something to help them win face to face rolls they're not gonna be taken unless they get rebuilt as peripherals for something else or Uber cheap corner guards
Wildcard might be too good but maybe just allow max one in a Triad haris? I guess that ends up being the same but it keeps them out of a Brawler core. Though I don't see that being bad either if it's a max of 1. Since it would be mixed. It's not like the Kaauri would get another +3 to discover and a +1 to to Kaauri and Reex BS isn't bad even with K1 or Spitfire.
Without a pure core bonus the reex are never gonna be a threat with their BS. it either needs boosting or they need a trick to make them useful. Noones using bs11 line infantry in haris as gun carriers, they're passable as button pushers or as enablers of a tactic like hacking or dep reps or mines for example. I'd be ok with them if they had a specialist skill and a DTW. Like an 8 PT chain rifle dude. But 18 points for a bs 11 marksman rifle is a bit steep imho. I'd also be ok with them if they had mimetism, bs attack-3 or albedo, or msv or literally anything else that made them useful. Sensor for example, would be good on something that "escorts" another unit. It's there to detect and repel ambushes right, that's why it's on escort duty, like a destroyer?
